The Work of Warriors

Kim Rapach (00:01.462)
Hi, Suze, welcome to the local warriors.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (00:04.502)
How are you? Thanks so much for having me.

Kim Rapach (00:07.57)
I'm good. Thank you. I'm so glad you're here. We chatted a few months ago, think, over Zoom. And... Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it was more than a few months ago. It might have been about a year ago. What's that? It doesn't matter. So we're here now. Well, we're at the wait, of course. And, you know, you and I share a lot of similar experiences with...

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (00:13.942)
Yeah, I don't know where the time went. It's not

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (00:22.464)
What's time? There's,

Kim Rapach (00:34.914)
burnout with the music industry, with mental health, and we've taken different but similar paths. I remember, you when we talked, I had transitioned from a therapist to a coach. You were transitioning from coaching to therapy.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (00:47.49)
Mm-hmm.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (00:54.347)
Yep.

Kim Rapach (00:56.866)
So, well, I'm glad you're here. I would love it if you would just tell us a bit about your previous experience in the music industry, because I think that's so important. And again, we share a lot of the same values, but I'd love to just hear it from you. What was your experience earlier on in the music industry?

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (01:18.26)
yes. So we're going back almost 25 years. It's a little over 20 years. I started at the major labels. I was at Atlantic for a little bit. I went to EMI, Astroworks. And that's when I really learned about burnout. hadn't even, or maybe I just hit 21 and I had my own office and I felt so accomplished. And I had a couple of years under my belt and I was feeling, you know, all right, I'm on the path to start my empire.

but it was 15. I was in sales. So I was at that time I was in charge of the Midwest region. had back when tower records was a thing and I had, all like a me, but, and all the different retail stores, Virgin mega store, and iTunes had just come out. So we were like, what is this looking like? And a lot of my accounts were closing. I think that might've been the year tower records closed.

Kim Rapach (01:49.646)
were you doing to roll with Rolla at that time?

Kim Rapach (02:17.486)
us.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (02:18.318)
And, it was, it was kind of a turbulent time. So there were 15 to 16 hour days, because I would not only do the Midwest sales, but they also put me in charge of the national street team. Because again, senior already, I'm the youngest and they're like, Nope, we're going to give you everything. Nobody else wants to run or doesn't have time to run. So I had the national street team and I was in charge of hiring and training all the interns. So.

Kim Rapach (02:43.054)
Thank you so much.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (02:44.256)
I had those three jobs, but then when it was the interns time to work the shows in New York City, I also had to overseal the interns because again, I had to pay my dues. So I might start at nine or 10 in the morning and then work till 2 a.m. if there was a show at Madison Square Garden or Webster Hall or you name it. So it was a pretty intense job.

Kim Rapach (02:46.52)
Yeah.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (03:11.506)
And I made it 10 months, I quit five times and I just kept coming back. Because of fear of being blacklisted and all the things I was told by my immediate boss of, know, you'll never work here again, people are lined up to take your job. I was making 28,000 a year. Nobody was lining up to take that job. But I just, couldn't handle it anymore. had...

Kim Rapach (03:17.902)
Bye.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (03:38.89)
My boss even helped put me into therapy, which was a lifesaver, but my therapist helped me realize this was not a healthy environment for me to be in. And so it was my therapist who even helped me write my resignation letter. And I finally on the fifth time said, that's it, I'm done. And I went into the legal side of things and I became a paralegal and I kind of get away from the sales and the live shows and all of that stuff, which...

put me on a path to learning more about psychology and learning more about burnout. And that's when I guess almost 10 years later, I decided to start the Rockstar Advocate, which was me becoming a coach, productivity coach for artists and other industry professionals to say, hey, listen, there are healthier ways to do this. And we don't have to, you know, work 17 hours out of fear of being blacklisted. Like that's not how this has to go.

Kim Rapach (04:19.47)
What?

Kim Rapach (04:28.64)
of.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (04:37.906)
and it, it did pretty well, you know, it really resonated with people, but it was definitely an uphill battle because you didn't really want to mention mental health back then. People were a little bit hesitant to talk about that.

Kim Rapach (04:54.83)
Mental health back then meant mental illness. That's a taboo word. Whereas now we're understanding mental health as wellness.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (04:58.433)
Yes.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (05:03.34)
Health, right, exactly.

Kim Rapach (05:08.568)
So how long have you had Rockstar educate?

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (05:12.034)
So this past November was 10 years from its inception. I formally came together in April of 2015. So we're almost at the official 10 year mark. But yeah, I don't know where the time goes. But it's really been quite a journey of, as you said, that taboo of mental health as mental illness and focusing, OK, we're going to talk about productivity.

Kim Rapach (05:24.238)
So.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (05:40.386)
You know, we'll talk about time management. going to talk about the anxiety and depression that keeps you from getting things done and causes you to procrastinate. But we'll just talk about productivity. And then around 2018, I, you know, I don't know that there just seemed to be a shift. All the other industries were focusing on the Me Too movement and the music industry was like, no, we're not ready for that, but let's, let's talk about mental health. And I thought, well, you know what? I'll take the wins where we can get them.

And so, you know, going to more conferences and really being able to talk about mental health, wellness, self-care, things like that, became a lot less taboo. And then right on the heels of that, obviously the pandemic, it kind of exploded and people were a lot more comfortable to talk about it.

Kim Rapach (06:19.262)
Thank

Kim Rapach (06:27.598)
And so, who is your ideal client today?

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (06:32.076)
Well, my ideal client right now is actually the record labels. I've become an in-house growth mindset coach for a lot of other agencies outside of the music industry, where I provide help and support to the employees to avoid burnout. And it's worked really, really well. And I'd love to take that model now and really apply it to the music industry. And there have been meetings, there have been conversations, but record labels aren't quite yet ready to take that.

Kim Rapach (07:02.702)
Yeah, we have a lot of experience in the industry. What do you think the reason is for that level of resistance?

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (07:11.264)
I think it's the same resistance that the finance industry had over 10 years ago when Ariana Huffington was talking about wellness and the importance of vacation days and supporting your employees. I think they're afraid of, well, if we shine a light on the problems, that kind of gives employees permission to be like, yeah, let's jump ship because yeah, there are a lot of problems. I don't really like my job, but it has the opposite effect where the employees are like, wow, my company cares enough.

about supporting me and helping me through this so that I can stay. I think a lot of employees want to stay. They want to provide that loyalty to their company, but you you just can't after a while. You know, you got to look after your health. And so I, but I think the companies are just afraid if we admit there's a problem, then we're going to lose people. And it's a lot of counterintuitiveness that goes into it.

Kim Rapach (08:05.934)
Yeah, and a lot of people think that time off for rest and self-care is money lost.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (08:13.526)
Right, and it's actually the opposite. And Ariana Huffington points out in her book, The Sleep Revolution, which was really a turning point for me in my career, was that all of these scientific studies have found it saves companies money. It saves them from health insurance claims. It saves them from losing employees to other companies. It saves them from, you know, lower productivity, actually increases productivity and makes companies money when they give employees

their rest and their sick time and all of that.

Kim Rapach (08:46.766)
Yeah. I'm curious what your mental health, like did your mental health tank when you were working from 9 a.m. to 2 a.m.? Would you be willing to talk a bit about

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (08:56.47)
like, yeah, absolutely beyond. And so many people told me to slow down. My doctor, my therapist, my mom, my friends. I didn't really see my friends for years. You I was never going on the friends vacations in our twenties. didn't go to the birthday parties or, you know, I didn't miss weddings or anything like that. But it was just like, yeah, I'm working like, or I'm trying to sleep after working and

I just did not go anywhere. became very isolated and it just became exhausting. And finally, you know, once I got out of that, I still had that mentality. So even though I moved in to the paralegal world, I would still taking on more responsibilities, working little odds and end jobs outside of that job, trying to build my own company, like really going full heart on it because I just felt

what was toxic at the label was just the way they talked to me. It wasn't the hours I kept. So I continued to work on two to three hours of sleep at night for most of my twenties. And everybody told me to slow down and everybody told me to stop. And everybody told me to get healthier. I was losing weight. I had bags under my eyes. I, you know, was forgetful. I, you know, didn't have short-term memory. Like it was horrendous. I had very high anxiety.

But finally, when I was 28, I contracted Lyme disease and a very large dose of Lyme disease. So I have what they call post-treatment Lymes or chronic Lyme disease. And that forced me to...

reconsider. I have to reconsider, have to start understanding the warning signs that people were giving me because my body just stopped working. So at that point, once I hit, I think I was 29, this was a year before I started the rockstar advocate, I hired a coach and she was telling me all the things I say now with such ease of you got to slow down to speed up, you have to work less hours. And she was not in the industry. And I kept

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (11:06.508)
fighting her saying, don't know what you're talking about because you don't know the music industry. And I have to do this and I have to show up at shows and I have to support my clients at their live shows and I have to do this and I have to be on all the social media platforms and I have to have a YouTube channel and I have to have all these things or else I'm not going anywhere. And then she would point to my income and she would say, and how's that going for you? You know, and she was a six figure coach and she's like, why don't you just try to trust me? You've paid me.

Like, don't you try to do what I'm suggesting? And I went down to working four hours a day and I had a full-time business in six months. And it was because I learned how to be intentional and I learned how to not, you know, do everything and just do the things that mattered most and that were going to move the needle. And so that's when I realized, okay, this is what I have to do for people in the industry. Cause I understand how difficult it is to trust these counterintuitive things from outsiders.

Kim Rapach (12:06.254)
Well, and when people on the inside are saying, if you don't put in these hours, we'll just find some way to replace them. There is valid concern. But what I work with my clients on is you have to know what your values are, what your boundaries are, what you're willing to do, what you're willing not to do. And you need to do that as early on in your career as possible. Because if you don't, someone else will decide for you.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (12:13.715)
Exactly.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (12:35.776)
Absolutely.

Kim Rapach (12:35.982)
and you'll betray, you'll do things you didn't think you'd ever do and you will betray yourself in ways you never thought you would, all because you are chasing this dream and the dream is possible. But I think by having these conversations and by teaching artists what it means to be healthy and employees and professionals in the industry and really working toward coming to the same page.

I think we can change the industry. think we can make everybody healthier. And everybody would be happier and more successful and make more money.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (13:11.882)
Exactly. Yeah, absolutely.

Kim Rapach (13:15.822)
You know, the definition of a warrior is someone who fights for themselves first, so that fight for the rest of us. And I think artists, especially in the music industry and the entertainment industry, get the short stick on that. It's like they're starting out in the red.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (13:20.278)
Hmm.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (13:35.21)
And it's this false kind of narrative of, well, those who suffer create great art. Yes, there has been some amazing, you know, classic art, whether it's paintings or music or movies that, yes, have come out of people's suffering. Absolutely. However, that doesn't mean you have to suffer to create great art. You just happen to be a great artist.

You know, people think that suffering is the magic component to great art. No, it's your talent. It's, know, if you want to be sustainable in this industry, if you want to make it a career and live your life outside of the industry and have this be an actual career path and not join the 27 club and not burn out too soon and not just be a one hit kind of, you know, spark that then leaves us. The, the goal is to

play the long game and we're playing chess, not checkers. And so I think it's really important for people, as you said, to really identify your values because at the end of the day, if you're writing all this amazing music and nobody gets to hear it, what's the point?

Kim Rapach (14:47.438)
Yeah, and I think over and over I find that when people really learn to choose themselves, really learn to listen to their bodies, amazing things happen. I think people are afraid of the boundaries, like we just talked about, but I find the opposite to be true. When you're a student yourself and you're taking care of yourself and you are a priority, it's like magic happens.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (15:09.25)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Rapach (15:17.08)
You know, people call me like, I believe this happened. Like, I can. This is actual furnace. It's not where hustling and grinding and burning yourself out that we think that's burning it and paying their dues. But really, I think what I see is you earn it when you show up authentic as yourself with healthy boundaries and a healthy lifestyle.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (15:21.474)
Absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (15:43.33)
And the thing is there's also this...

I don't to say this. There's also this idea of, if I say no to people, I'm difficult to work with. No, if you say yes and you show up with barely anything to give and you're exhausted, then it's like a disappointment to work with you. If you say no and you set your boundaries, they respect that. It's okay.

Kim Rapach (16:05.646)
or your comments from or

Kim Rapach (16:14.67)
It's such a misnomer, People taking drugs to stay awake to be able to be the chosen one and they don't do a great job and then they get ditched anyway.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (16:29.17)
Or you work so hard and I found this out in my twenties was, you work so hard at something. You want everybody in your circle to care about what you're doing and to support you and to be there for you and celebrate once you finally reach your goals. And they're over here like, well, where were you? You didn't make time for me. You didn't check in on me. You only cared about your work. So why am I going to support you? And, you know, luckily I still had people left at the end who, you know, knew I just went down a wrong path, but

You know, I had to atone for that and I had to make my friends a priority and I had to make my family a priority because otherwise who was I celebrating with once I reached my goals?

Kim Rapach (17:07.79)
Do you think that that hustle and grind culture served as a badge of honor for you at any point?

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (17:20.674)
100%. I mean, that I would always say that I would always like literally puck out my chest and I'd be like, yeah, I'm from Queens. I'm a workaholic. I, I, it's crazy. I had a Facebook memory pop up and I, I cringed, feeding it. hate these Facebook memories. And it was from like 12 or 13 years ago. And it was like, yep, it's 2 a.m. I'm now doing my third job.

which was my own business. it was like, and you know, people just don't know how to hack it sometimes, but here I am living the dream, making it happen. I thought to myself like, you know, brag about it, but I wasn't bringing in any money. wasn't growing my business. wasn't doing anything. I wasn't having any impact that I wanted to have. I was just busy. That's all it was busy. And the only difference between 13 years ago and 10 years ago was that I just started being intentional.

Kim Rapach (18:08.206)
I'm sorry.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (18:17.13)
And so I just started questioning more, is that a good opportunity for me or is that just an opportunity? And that's just not for me. So I can say no to it. And you don't have to say yes to every opportunity. It doesn't mean it's aligned with you, which is what you were saying with figuring out your values. Once I asked my coach had asked me that she said, what do you stand for and what matters to you? I was like, why are you asking me these things? I just want to, I just want to get this work done.

And she said to that point, so you know what to say no to. Like if you don't know what aligns with you, how do you know what to say yes and no to? And then, my goodness, the decision making became so much easier because I was like, that doesn't align with where I'm going, but thank you so much. And maybe I'd recommend somebody else for it, or I just wish them well. And then I'd get back to what I was doing.

Kim Rapach (19:10.306)
What does that do?

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (19:12.918)
I gotta say, and this is why I care so much about what I do with people now, it was so uncomfortable. It was so uncomfortable. was laden with guilt and what I like to call fraud talk, the imposter syndrome of just this, my goodness, I'm gonna so regret that decision, or people are gonna think I'm lazy, or...

you know, I'm missing out and you know, this is gonna pass me right by and somebody else is gonna get what I'm going for and all of these things. And it took a long time when you figure I was 29, almost 30 when I started understanding this counterintuitive thinking, but I had 30 years of conditioning to undo of, yeah, work hard, work hard. I mean, I was the type of student that took.

you know, as many AP courses as I could. And then I got out of college in three years because I took 11 classes a term, like, mean, an insane amount of schoolwork to get to the top and to race to the finish line. And that was what I knew. And so all of that, was like me trying to say, okay, that's what I did, but it didn't make it right. And just because I survived it didn't mean it was the right thing to do. And so there was a lot of unlearning and a lot of discomfort.

even though I was getting results and it was working.

Kim Rapach (20:36.046)
Did you ever get to the root of where you learned how to hustle that hard?

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (20:43.03)
You know, both my parents were workaholics, but my mom, thankfully, was always the type that said, you know, have to enjoy it. And if you're not enjoying it, you got to stop. But, you know, they didn't grow up with silver spoons in their mouth. They both had to come up from nothing. And so I was like, well, I'm not going to be seen as, you know, this person that had the red carpet laid out for them. I'm...

I'm going to work as hard as I possibly can and I'm not taking anything from anybody and no handouts and I'm going to just do everything myself and made it so much harder on myself and there was my dad, you know, keep going. That's right. All right. Sounds good. But then he'd also be like, well, when are you giving this up? Like, you know, what's your paycheck look like? Do you have a savings account? He was always like, well, you seem to be working real hard and I'm proud of you, but you're not, you're still eating ramen noodles. Like what's.

what's not working? Like you have a degree. By that time I had my bachelor's and a master's and he was like, what are you doing? And you know, and then shortly after that he had passed away. And so then I was like, wait, what? And then I realized it was a big wake up call. Same time that I hired my coach and it was a big wake up call of he didn't know he was going to have a shortened life and he didn't even get to retirement.

He didn't get to enjoy any of it. But in my head, had, yeah, my dad works really hard. puts everything away in his savings and he's going to enjoy life when he gets out of this.

Kim Rapach (22:17.546)
Wow, was he still grinding when he found

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (22:21.41)
He was to kind of paint a picture. My dad had gotten cancer. He was in 9-11 and then he had gotten very sick from that. And so he was in the hospital on his Blackberry, like still working from the hospital bed while he was getting treatment. And even his bosses were like, we're good. Like you can start, you have the leave time, like go get better. And he's like, what am I going to do here? I'm just sitting here.

Like I've got emails to send out. gave him a sense of purpose. And I realized it's great to take pride in your work, but you also want to enjoy yourself if you work that hard. So I had to find pride in other things outside of my work. And that, that was a journey.

Kim Rapach (23:06.286)
So through your personal and professional experience, what do you find is the driver behind that I have to be productive at all times, even if I'm in a hospital with cancer? Like what are those high achievers listening? I get it. I'm recovering. Work all like myself.

I had a benefit. I was able to pour it into a therapy practice. So I was able to polish it real nice. But so I can't it but what is your experience as far as what drives that thought or mentality or that dysregulation or discomfort? What am I doing here? just in the hospital. I might as well get something done. Or you could wait while you're by.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (23:52.78)
Right. Yeah. I think for me and I think for my dad too, was like, this is what I'm here for. He had a family he wanted to give back to. He wanted to make sure, hey, when I leave this earth, you guys are going to have something. it's because of how hard I worked. And yes, money is nice and money is a great thing. yes, we all want to get paid for our work. We all deserve to get paid for our work. But at the same time,

We also leave legacies that have nothing to do with money. And the important legacies here are, I used my time in a way that felt aligned with me. Now, I think my dad spent his years the way he wanted to. He loved to work and that's what he took pride in. And that he saw as his role. But for me personally, I can speak to is that, yeah, I realized I kept doing it because I wanted to make him proud.

and I wanted to make other people proud. I was living for other people. It was like, well, if I just keep working and I can't make somebody's birthday party, but I work hard enough to achieve something great, they'll see why I wasn't at that birthday party and they'll see it was worth it. And they'll see they're like, okay, I haven't seen Sue's for a couple of weeks, but wow, look what she accomplished. And so she's off the hook, she's forgiven. And like, it just kind of kept motivate, was like this sick cycle.

But I kept getting on where it's like, I missed time to hang out with my friends. Okay, let me work harder to make sure it was worth it. I can't hang out my friends because I'm working hard. Okay, let me make sure it was worth it. And then finally had to be like, I, there's no explanation that shows me it was worth it. Even when I was achieving things, it was like, but I'm not enjoying it and I have nobody to celebrate it with. So some things got to change. And that's when I started to find pride in I'm a really good friend. show up for my friends. I'm.

a really good family member, I'm there with my family. you know, my dad passing away, three months after my dad passed, I got Lyme disease and that is not an accident. And that's the same year I hired the coach. Like that was such a year. And it really just showed me, formative year. It really just showed me that, you know, this was time is limited and nothing is more important. So when I'm at work and

Kim Rapach (26:03.502)
you

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (26:17.78)
somebody in my family is under the weather or my friend needs me. Okay, you know what? Work is important, but there are sick days for a reason. And there is days off for a reason. There's vacation time for a reason. So I'm gonna use those when I feel my time is better spent with somebody else. And so, you know, I recently had a family health crisis a couple of weeks ago and I took time off of work.

Kim Rapach (26:30.222)
So.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (26:43.596)
to be with them and they say, I'm sorry, I had to take off for work. And I was like, you think I'm going to miss like the meetings I'm not at right now or the emails, like right now I'm with you. And right now, like I'm at peace knowing we're good and we're making memories. And so it was a big shift when all of that happened for me that I just see everything in such a different light of what we can't get back. You can get more emails, you can get more work, you can get more clients there. That's always going to be there.

Kim Rapach (27:11.95)
Yep, Yeah, good for you. I love that you're living what you're teaching.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (27:13.826)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (27:22.466)
So tell me about your coaching. When you do work with music professionals, what do you, what are you focusing on? How does that, how does that look? Or when you're working with record labels, what does that look like specifically?

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (27:37.098)
Yeah, I learned to approach it very personally. Like I don't have a one size fits all. I don't have a course. don't and that that's not a dig at anybody who does. just for the work that I do with people, it's not a one size fits all. I approach productivity as productivity is personal. So I there are questionnaires that I give people, whether I'm working with an agency or with an individual.

Kim Rapach (27:50.664)
Thank

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (28:03.602)
I also had a group coaching program last year for like five, it was about five years we had it. And everybody got a questionnaire to fill out to understand what their goals were. What were they trying to achieve? What was, you know, just like in therapy and intake form, like, what are we dealing with here? What's your history with coaching? What's your history with reaching your goals professionally? You know, what are your supports look like outside?

of your profession. you have friends and family or do you feel very isolated? That's going to inform me on where we start because if I, I learned that if I ask a client, well, what do you want to work on? How do know? I, you know, I, I need to, I want a number one single or I want to, you know, I want to chart on billboard or I want to plan a tour, my first tour. Great. But then we started digging deeper and I find out, you have

Kim Rapach (28:35.746)
Thank

Kim Rapach (28:48.302)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (28:57.912)
Thank

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (29:00.466)
no relationship with friends or family. You are all by yourself. You are buried in financial stressors. You have, and you don't sleep because your anxiety from all these things keeps you up at night. Like then I realized, okay, so it's kind of like Maslow's like hierarchy of needs. Like let's work backwards first. And I try to explain to them, I'm asking you these questions so that I know what the real priority is. Because if you tell me, well, because I need to plan a tour.

but I realize like you haven't even like slept in a week and your eating habits are all over the place. We can plan the most perfect tour. You're not gonna be able to finish it. And so, you we have to start with kind of what are your hierarchy of needs and where do we really need to start addressing some of those, you know, misnomers and myths that you've got going on. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (29:53.166)
How do you mentally, Suze, I'm just like, I'm like preach, yes, in full alignment. And also I know the reality of some managers and producers. How do you mentally combat just things that you know about the industry? How do you stand up against that while you advocate for your.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (29:58.092)
Yeah.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (30:18.316)
Yeah, I think the toughest thing is, know, when you have people on their team that, you know, lot of my work is with independent artists. And then I have some artists to have a full team around them or have at least one other person on their team. And they'll say, well, so and so is not going to like that plan. Or I've had team members get on the call and say, well, okay, well, listen, hold on. That's, know, we don't want them slowing down. Stop telling them to take more rest time. And I'll say like, you know, I'll get on their level.

and I'll empathize with them and I'll say, you I hear your concerns. I hear the investment you have in this person, not just with money, but with time, with energy, with care, with focus, you know, I hear it. Do you want that investment to come back tenfold or do they want that investment to burn out and not be able to see this all the way through? So, you know, I ask them if they're in it for the long game or if they're just trying to like knock one out and

move on to the next thing. because at the end of the day, that's really what we're talking about. And I'll say to them, you know, yeah, you're right. You're, you're their manager. You're their team leader. You're the one calling the shots, but I know you're here because you care about this person. So, you know, and I know this is a lot to ask you to trust because it is, it's, it's very counterintuitive. It's very difficult to trust when you think you've been going.

Kim Rapach (31:16.931)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (31:31.627)
in.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (31:42.08)
you know, doing the right thing. And a lot of people will be resistant, much like I was because they feel attacked. They feel like, you're attacking the way I've approached things for X amount of years. And I'll say, listen, I'm not, get it. Like this is how the industry has conducted us and conditioned us to be, but you found me for a reason and you asked for help for a reason. So you can keep going the rate that you're going, but clearly something's not working. And much like my coach said to me,

why don't you just try it my way for a little bit and let's just see what happens. And I think you have to find a coach or a therapist or whomever you work with, even if it's a manager, somebody who you feel that you can, not every coach is for every single person. There are people that prefer a more bootcamp, drill sergeant type of approach. I know coaches like that and they flourish with them. That's not my approach. And so you have to know what,

how you want to be supported. And that's also one of the first questions I asked them, like, do you want a little bit of, you know, a mother hen and a cheerleader, or do you want a drill sergeant and, you know, and a boot camp instructor? Because they're very different and people get motivated by very different approaches. So I think a lot of that kind of has to be addressed in the beginning.

Kim Rapach (33:02.03)
Yeah, and I will unapologetically say that as a former therapist and a coach who still does a lot of trauma work, there's only so, so far you can get with the drill sergeant approach. Because nowhere in there is really, truly, truly your heart. Maybe your heart for your craft, maybe your heart for the industry, but your heart for yourself gets overlooked often with that.

with that mentality. It only goes so far. works for a while, gets people motivated, for sure. But if you are going to be truly aligned with yourself and your values, you also have to have some vulnerability.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (33:36.3)
Mm-hmm.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (33:46.538)
And it's scary. There's a lot to ask of people because, you know, they're already being vulnerable with their art. And it's like, no, I have to figure out this business and I don't know the business and it's overwhelming. So, you know, don't make me be more vulnerable.

Kim Rapach (34:02.698)
And it is scary and it's okay. We can feel scared and excited and full and terrified all at the same time. So, Suze, what do you do on a regular basis to optimize and protect your own mental health?

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (34:12.736)
complex creatures.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (34:25.348)
man, I give into guilty pleasures like watching, know, Schitt's Creek or, you know, watching The Real Housewives, although I've kind of reached my limit with them recently, but I'll even go watch old episodes where, you know, not everybody was pulling hair and throwing things, but just watching some guilty pleasures where I can just laugh and kind of escape everything for a little bit. I like to go on walks.

I like to walk with my dog and my husband and walk into town and just get, you know, a slice of pizza. I like to just get out of the house and get some movement going. Corgi Chihuahua, his name is Chihuahua. Yeah. He's like this fat little dog with like little Chihuahua legs. It's very, very alarming, but cute one. And we try to keep that corgi body in check.

Kim Rapach (35:03.65)
Bye.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Kim Rapach (35:15.342)
Yes.

Okay.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (35:23.386)
and so we go for walks and, it's really just about, you know, sometimes also I, I get in my car now that I, I live in Queens, but I'm no longer living deep into Queens. So actually I have a driveway and I have a car for the first time and for forever. And so I'll hop in the car and just play wicked and sing, sing to my heart's content and, know, and just, just do those things. In fact,

Kim Rapach (35:24.758)
That was a good one.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (35:52.086)
Two weeks ago, I took myself on a movie date by myself to see Wicked and just enjoy it and just not talk to anybody, not go, my God, did you see that? Wasn't that amazing? What did you think? Did it let's dissect it? No, I just want to experience it. And I just want to be quiet and to myself and then go home and go to bed. Like that's it. And so I just like those, those moments of quiet and alone time to just decompress because as you know, the work we do, it's a lot of

you know, a of listening, a lot of talking, a lot of interacting with people, which I love, but I need my downtime.

Kim Rapach (36:31.342)
Sure, well, and it's like what we tell our clients, right? You're not a robot, you're a human being, have limits. And we're the same, we're not robots. can't listen and pour into people endlessly. I mean, I tried it, it didn't work.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (36:48.86)
We all know all eventually.

Kim Rapach (36:50.958)
Exactly. What, again, based on your personal and professional experience in the industry, what would you say, you know, and this isn't replacement for mental health treatment, but what would you say to an artist who is struggling with this, you know, fear of losing their spot in line? They've worked so hard to get here.

And the industry is demanding things that could literally force them to lose everything they've worked so hard for and they're contemplating like, what's the point of it all? What would you say?

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (37:33.41)
Yeah, I, you know, sometimes I like to say to them like worst case scenario, like what does that look like? And if it did all end tomorrow, if you couldn't do music anymore, what would your life be like? Like what value would you find in your life? And I was recently lucky enough to do a workshop at Jump Global Summit in LA. And one of the things we talked about in the workshop was

you have all these different areas of life. And sometimes when you work in the music industry, that kind of just supersedes and kind of immerses itself in all areas of your life. And it starts to feel like that is your life. Especially if you're an artist, you give a lot of yourself and you're creating this art and then you hand that over to other people. And then these other people give a lot of themselves to make sure that that art goes somewhere. And so it does become like this all encompassing life within itself.

And all those relationships are important, but you have to remember to have people outside and rather than get frustrated, like all my best friend didn't show up to my show or my mom still doesn't know what I do or my uncle is still asking me when I'm going to give this whole thing up or, you know, embrace the fact that they're not in the industry, embrace the fact that they're on the outside. And, you know, if you hear anybody, I know I've heard, you know, Justin Timberlake bring this up a lot and

Kim Rapach (38:53.998)
Thanks.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (39:03.04)
I think would, know, Taylor Swift's mentioned it a bunch of times and all, you know, people ask them like, how do you stay, you know, above the fray? And of course, Justin Timberlake had his share of the fray this year, but for the most part, it to be in this long and not really have, you know, any real scandal or any real issue with it, they'll all respond. I still have my same friends and family from before.

I made it. And that's what keeps me tethered to the fact of like, this is all smoke and mirrors. Like this is all fun and play and imagination and art. But then out of this is who I am before I started creating music or before I in love with going to concerts. so reconnecting to that spot, I always tell people if you're going for something and you're so worried about what the outcome of that is going to be, take a break, get out of your head for a minute.

and go call somebody else, ask them how they're doing, ask them what's going on in their life, and just take you out of the equation for a bit. And throw your energy into being there for somebody else because we all need to humble ourselves. It doesn't mean don't dream big or don't work hard or go for that big goal. But to bring the anxiety down, sometimes throwing ourselves into helping other people or just being there and enjoying other people.

can really kind of shine a light on, okay, this is important to me and I really hope this works out, but this really is just one opportunity and one moment in my life and there are other things outside of it.

Kim Rapach (40:42.69)
Yeah, yeah, it's so easy to forget because the darkest days feel like they're going to last forever and they don't.

And I can speak to that.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (40:53.6)
Absolutely.

Kim Rapach (40:56.108)
What do you wish people who aren't in the industry understood about those in the industry?

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (41:05.26)
give us grace for trying. You know, I think it is hard because you know, I've had friends they they work a nine to five they clock in, they clock out, they don't think about it on the weekends. They're not talking about it after after work. And it's like, why are you still talking about this? Or, you know, why are you why are you checking your emails right now? Or why are you on social media documenting everything? And there's a way to just gently remind them, hey, I'd really like you to be present with me right now. Can that wait?

rather than, why are doing that? you know, this is the most important thing. But then it is because this industry can really feel all encompassing. And the comparison paralysis that we go through and the, you know, I always said the sleep shaming that would go on, which kept me in this schedule, this horrifically toxic schedule, even after I left the labels, because I would still go to networking events and everybody would like.

God, I'm so tired and I would yawn and they say how much sleep did you have and I'd say two hours please. I had 45 minutes. I wish I had I'd give anything for two hours of sleep Like what are you complaining about and then I feel like my gosh, I'm not working hard enough I'm not doing like I'm failing at this what like I'm sleeping and these people are working and I'm gonna be outworked and I'm not gonna get to where I'm going and It's like that has nothing to do with why people are successful. It's really not and and I had to

remind myself of that, but it was more helpful when my friends would also remind me of that and tell me that I was doing a good job. you know, for people outside, just understand the pressure that we're under when we're in it, because it can be such a toxic environment that, and people aren't trying to be toxic, but it's all they know. And so this toxicity, we're just breathing each other's air and it just keeps getting reinforced. And so pull your friend, your music industry friend out.

for a second, let them get some clean air and just remind them like I'm here for you, but like you're doing that thing again. And, you know, just shake, you know, shake it off to just be here right now.

Kim Rapach (43:03.992)
Bye.

Kim Rapach (43:09.432)
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, so grace.

Thank you so much. I'm so grateful that you said yes.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (43:18.412)
Thank

please. I am so thrilled you asked. I couldn't believe I found you on Instagram. I was like, my gosh, it individual.

Kim Rapach (43:30.03)
I'm

Yeah, I can't get it. I mean, could have these conversations all day, every day. I coach and even just these conversations, I don't say just these, but even though I coach and I love coaching, also love, if people say, what is your favorite part of your day? It's watching people transform their lives and having these conversations where I know if we keep having these brave conversations, we can change the industry.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (43:58.37)
Absolutely.

Kim Rapach (44:01.47)
everything is changing, right? And why not this industry?

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (44:06.08)
And people are listening. So that's important. And so I thank you for sharing this platform and for getting these conversations out there. It's so important.

Kim Rapach (44:16.312)
Thank you. But you have a podcast too.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (44:19.274)
I do, it's kind of on pause right now, but I do, I'm hoping to bring it back soon. Yes, yes.

Kim Rapach (44:25.09)
Yes, who is your toward? What's the main theme?

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (44:28.874)
Yes, it's called Redefine the Hustle. it's based, some episodes are, have five seasons. Some episodes are lessons learned. So it's just stories from my career as warning, warning labels to those about to do the same. And then I have great interviews with people like yourself who are, you know, I don't have to preach to them. They know it already. And it's good to hear other people say these things. So like I'm not.

alone on my island of self care. And so it's a wonderful mixture of lessons learned and collaborative conversations just around this counterintuitiveness and why it's so difficult to trust it.

Kim Rapach (45:10.798)
Yeah, I love that. So if someone is new to redefine the hustle, they can go back and there's five seasons where they can even though it's unpaused, you can get caught up. Do know when you're coming back out with the new season?

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (45:15.842)
Yeah.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (45:26.732)
I'm hoping in the spring. Yeah, we're gonna start batching some episodes in the next couple of months. So hopefully this spring.

Kim Rapach (45:32.142)
Only on your timeline, know, nothing's worth your mental health. So I hope you're able to bring it back, but only if it feels. I would love that. would absolutely love that. Thank you so much, Susan. So glad you're here. I'm so glad you're doing the work that you're doing in the industry in the world.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (45:39.426)
We'll have to have you on as well.

Suz | The Rock/Star Advocate (45:47.903)
Thank Thank you. Appreciate it.