The Work of Warriors

Dr. Corey Emanuel (00:13.278)
Hey there.

Kim Rapach (00:14.572)
Hi Dr. Corey.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (00:17.384)

Kim Rapach (00:34.016)
Hi. Nice to meet you.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (00:35.723)
Hi, nice to finally meet you.

Kim Rapach (00:41.036)
Thank you for being here. Absolutely. So Dr. Cora, you are a media psychologist, multimedia strategist and mental health advocate.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (00:43.038)
Thank you for having me.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (00:50.025)
Yes.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (00:54.247)
Absolutely. All three and a few other things too.

Kim Rapach (00:57.358)
Well, do you want to say the few other things and then I'll ask you how you got here? Because that wasn't always the case, right?

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:04.042)
Sure Sure, so I volunteer with at-risk youth here in Los Angeles I'm a children's book author working on my first adult manuscript now and Yeah, I really do create consider myself a creative multi-hyphenate so Yeah, just wear a lot of different hats, but it's all things that keep me energized

Kim Rapach (01:30.272)
I love that. Yeah. Well, thank you for your work. What is the name of your children's book?

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:35.186)
It is Can I Be President Too. Can I Be President Too. Yeah, it was inspired by the election or the then candidate for presidential election, Barack Obama, back in 08. So it sort traces the build up to his first run for presidency. And of course, we see that he wins there at the end.

Kim Rapach (01:38.665)
I'm sorry.

Kim Rapach (01:51.862)
Hmm.

Kim Rapach (01:59.275)
Amazing.

Kim Rapach (02:03.572)
Amazing. I'll have to check that out.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (02:04.628)
Yeah, please do. Available on Amazon.

Kim Rapach (02:09.492)
Awesome, awesome. So this wasn't always your gig, right? Like you didn't start here.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (02:16.388)
It wasn't, no. I didn't even know media psychology was a thing. I spent the first, I would say, 10 years of my post-undergraduate career in the educational publishing space, which of course is sort of what sparked me to write that first children's book and certainly really grounded me in a love for education. So I spent a good part of the early years of my career in the product marketing world.

for education, educational technology, digital curriculum, things of that nature. But in the midst of that journey, I decided to go back to school. I was living in New York City at the time. And if you worked in education and you were living in New York City, sort of a rite of passage was going to Teachers College, Columbia University Teachers College. So it was during that one year, fast-paced,

getting my master's program that I took an elective course called the psychology of media. And that is what really sort of birthed this fascination about all of the possible, you know, areas that I would be able to really be a thought leader, you know, sort of get ahead of some of the things that I knew we were gonna be wanting to make sense of. And so that journey of...

being introduced to media psychology and then obviously now holding my doctorate in the area was about a, I would say about a 10 year journey from discovering it, completing my masters and then finding a program that even offered it. Because I wasn't someone who, I always had in the back of my mind that I wanted to get a PhD.

I was inspired really early as a child through the television series A Different World. And that was my first time seeing people who looked like me in such high academic positions. And so that seed was planted. And so I was like, okay, maybe one day I will get my PhD. But it wasn't until I got in that elective course that I was like, this is where I

Kim Rapach (04:11.598)
then.

Kim Rapach (04:31.062)
Yeah, you just feel it, right?

Dr. Corey Emanuel (04:32.69)
You do. You feel it when it happens. It's like, okay, yeah, this resonates. This doesn't even necessarily feel like more or additional schooling. It just feels like a way for me to expand what I'm passionate about, you know, things that I feel like the world is going to need to know more about to like function and optimal level. And even then with all of that is so complicated, so much nuance, which I'm sure we'll get into in this conversation.

Kim Rapach (05:01.314)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But I find it fascinating. I feel like when that happens, my coach always says like, well, I don't feel like I learned it. I feel like I was remembering it. Right. Something comes across and you're just like, this doesn't feel new. But the rest of the world has no idea what you're talking about. Right.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (05:03.623)
Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (05:14.69)
Mmmmm

Dr. Corey Emanuel (05:19.645)
I love that.

absolutely, I remember my mom reminded me once I kind of got enrolled in my doctorate program and I was studying. She's like, remember when you were like in elementary or middle school and you won this journalism contest? And I went back and I looked at it and I was like, I have completely forgotten about that. But it was me being just really candid about what I was observing about the media even as a child.

particularly the stories that the news represented and and it was like the early beginnings of like media literacy that I was writing about and So much of that early discovery about what was happening in the media is Very present in our day-to-day Living and what we're seeing so it's it's been something to your point that I love the thought of Remembering because that is exactly what that is

Kim Rapach (06:20.29)
Yeah, I do Enneagram coaching. And when I when it came across my desk, so to speak, I just ate it up. And you know, my husband would ask me, like, how do you remember this? And I'm like, I don't know. It just makes so much sense to me. Yeah. Yeah, and I did. I felt like I was remembering more than learning. Yeah. Yeah, that's so cool. So what are you up to today? You're doing lots of cool things. I think I saw you. Were you in Chicago?

Dr. Corey Emanuel (06:35.619)
Absolutely, yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (06:39.784)
1 billion percent.

Kim Rapach (06:48.874)
On our news channel?

Dr. Corey Emanuel (06:51.153)
I don't think so. But you know what? What I will say in part to answer your question is I do a lot of interviews with journalists, right? So sometimes it's for Yahoo News, sometimes it's for the griot. They'll reach out. They're like, I literally typed in media psychologist on Instagram, and you were the first name to come up. And I was like, OK, that personal branding is working for me.

Kim Rapach (06:52.918)
No?

Kim Rapach (07:18.221)
Sure.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (07:18.375)
But but to answer your questions, I do a lot of different things one of course is a lot of interviews I love doing podcasts conversations like this one because each one we talk about something different because This thing is ever evolving right everything that's sort of coming down the pipeline When it when we think about the news and the media and social media, there's always something new to sort of unpack So I do a lot of that. I do a lot of writing Like I said just finishing up my first book proposal. I'm really excited about that

I do script work. I work with studios here in Los Angeles. know, sometimes they want like a psychologist to sort of take a script and look through and make sure they're hitting all of the marks to be responsible. And then I do a lot of consulting work as well. So that beginning piece I told you about working in educational technology, I still do a lot of work in that space because, you know, many educators across the world

are just now really embracing, like integrating technology into their classroom. Like obviously computers have been around a long time, but like, we're gonna do our entire curriculum now on an iPad or on a Chromebook. Like that takes some professional development to really get educators to embrace that model. That's somewhat of a still, still the new model. So I do a lot of work in that space and

Just constantly being open to the possibilities. I did a TEDx talk last year that allowed me to really expand upon my doctoral research. So I'm always looking at ways to connect the past to the present that will ultimately, as a collective, help us move forward.

Kim Rapach (09:02.582)
Yeah, that's amazing. And I can't think of a time where it's been needed more than now.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (09:08.646)
for sure.

Kim Rapach (09:09.888)
So I know, I mean, I know that most people understand why we need to maybe spend less time with the news or with media or social media. And I also know the same people, sometimes myself included, but the same people who know that still struggle with that. And what would you say?

Dr. Corey Emanuel (09:32.038)
Absolutely.

Kim Rapach (09:34.924)
Like, because I feel like I work with a lot of people who they think something's wrong with them. Like, I'm just not motivated. You know, what's wrong with me? Why can't I get off my phone? I think I'm addicted. What, what do you say to that?

Dr. Corey Emanuel (09:40.358)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (09:50.51)
I love that people start with that though. You know, I think that obviously there's a lot of self-compassion that has to go along with that sort of questioning and interrogation of yourself. But I love that people start with that because a lot of times, and I talk about this in the book that I'm developing right now, is that we are coming to social media with a lot of stuff, right? A lot of layers of childhood wounds, trauma, rejections we never processed. And so then,

All of that from the billions of people who use it creates an energy and it creates a collective frequency in which is going to make you feel a lot of different things, right? And so I am someone, I'm a huge proponent of like there's nothing wrong with having feelings, right? But we need the tools to make sense of that. And sometimes that tool is therapy. Sometimes that is, you know, group.

settings and finding community where you might be but within those you know Bubbles if you will you start to feel seen like to your point like you and I aren't the only ones who sometimes feel anxious You and I aren't the only ones that sometimes get easily distracted and so just being able to normalize we're all having a very similar experience here is such a great sort of intro or introduction

to then doing more of the unpacking and the work. And I often say, like, there's no one size fits all. What you need in terms of discovery, healing, moving forward, moving through things might look completely different from me. But asking that question is always a great start. For instance, people will often say, I really think social media is making me depressed. And I always say, OK, let's start there.

There are some feelings of sadness, perhaps, that have emerged, and you're noticing that when you get on social media, you're being activated to maybe feel more sad, or now sadness has turned to anger, or now there's this sort of anxious feeling that you have, right? But you notice that it's more pronounced when you've had some type of engagement interaction with social media. All of that's true.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (12:14.531)
Right that can be true for you, but that doesn't necessarily mean that that narrative that story started with social media There could be some things that you're carrying like I said from childhood from your college experience the last relationship that you're in That yeah now you're coming across some things on social media. That's reminding you of that pain and that experience right so that might mean no social media isn't like

the monster, so to speak, but it is playing a role. So yeah, maybe you need to not, you know, unfollow some of those accounts, right? Or maybe I do need to create some distance where notifications are off or I create some type of media plan, which I encourage a lot of families to do where there are certain windows of time that I allow myself to use social media and all of that's discipline. And I think that's the tricky part about all of this.

is because it's social media, we want to downplay the discipline that's required to navigate it in a healthy way.

Kim Rapach (13:18.926)
Can I just say thank you? I mean, the fact I'm everything that I do is story motivated or trauma informed. And so the fact that, you know, I think it would be easy maybe for some people to see your title and assume, like, you're going to help me understand what are the rules, right? And I love that that is not at all what you're doing that you're all about the humanity and the unique.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (13:24.333)
For sure. What are you thanking me for?

Kim Rapach (13:48.576)
individual experience and the translation of how media is impacting you, not just media and social media are bad and we need to limit it to an hour a day. Like that's too simplified and not realistic. And so I just love that you're bringing the humanity into it, especially a trauma informed lens for how social media impacts us because you and I sitting here, you know, I'm in Chicago, you're in LA.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (14:03.083)
sure.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (14:07.171)
Thank you.

Kim Rapach (14:18.018)
were different genders, were different cultures, we could see the exact same post and it would impact us or not at all entirely differently and both are valid. So that curiosity that you talk about is amazing.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (14:25.999)
totally. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And you bring up a valid point. People will sometimes reach out to me and say, hey, I'm really interested in this field. Maybe they're already going down a psychology, sociology path, and they're looking for, my next pivot academically in my career, I need to make a decision. And so you bring up a really valid point that I encourage people that like

Even though my specialty is in media and dissecting it and examining it, there's still those initial years of study that are just grounded in general psychology. So you're not getting away from the tenets of what every psychologist should know. And we bring that knowledge and that expertise and that understanding into whatever your niche might be. So that's a really good point. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (15:18.55)
Yeah. Yeah. So I want to ask more about discipline because again, it's so tricky for so many people to stay consistent. And I know for me, what I have learned over the years is in order to have consistency and discipline,

Dr. Corey Emanuel (15:25.324)
Hmm.

Kim Rapach (15:40.628)
I have to have that self-compassion, that curiosity, that so I'm leading me, right? The stories aren't leading me. The narratives aren't leading me. You know, people, whatever, my triggers aren't leading me. I am leading me, but that requires self-love and self-awareness. And so I'm just curious to hear your take on that.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (15:57.378)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (16:02.732)
Sure, I feel like you somehow discovered a copy of my book proposal because so many of the things that we're talking about... No, it's beautiful. I love it. It's affirming actually that I'm actually hitting the sort of mark of where people are and what they're feeling what's coming up for them. So I love that. But, you know, I talk about how anything with like self in front of it, self love, self care has started to get like this bad rap.

Kim Rapach (16:07.968)
You

We're aligned.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (16:31.872)
And I get it because of, in a lot of ways, the media, how it's promoted that as, you know, retail therapy and spa days, which not knocking any of those things, right? That that's part of like, you know, just taking care of yourself, right? Which we need to do. But because of that, I think there's also sometimes like this, I don't want to bite into that because that's the trend. And I want to discourage that. Like I want everybody

whatever your self-word is, self-love, self-care, self-compassion, if you're listening to this and that's coming up for you and you feel like you kind of have this interesting dance that you're doing with that, let this be your sign. You have permission to lean into whatever self-area that you need to lean in, right? And so to your point, the self-compassion is key because

Like I said at the top of the conversation, there's no one right way to do this social media dance, right, that we do. I think that a lot of people, like, let's say you wanna do a detox. This is something I talk to people about all the time. And maybe you go away for a day or two and you start going through withdrawals, right? So you find yourself putting the app back on your phone or you find yourself maybe logging in on the computer to check your inboxes.

when you said you were gonna do a break, give yourself grace through those moments, right? When we think about addiction, what it is, it's hard. Not to say that everybody is addicted, but there is this level of like the dopamine that the social media apps provide you. And so we need to give ourselves grace that you might fall off the wagon as you begin to really again examine your relationship to it and try to create boundaries around it.

So to your point, give yourself the self-compassion, but also realize that it's not gonna be easy. That it is going to be hard to break away from something that has now been part of our stratosphere for a really long time. know, especially when think about kids, they're born into it. Yeah, they're born into it. And so speaking of kids, you know, I tell parents, like you're the first role model, right?

Kim Rapach (18:46.198)
I was just gonna say... Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (18:56.169)
So your kids are the same way. They observe facial impressions very early on. They're observing your use of social media even in their infancy. And so we begin laying the groundwork for best practices around technology and mobile use very early on. So don't underestimate that. But then there has to be a plan. Like I think, again, going back to my original point of people kind of want to treat this very casually.

And you've got as a family, as an individual, you've got to have some type of what I call digital media plan, right? Where you come home from work, put the phones in a bowl, right? Like have an hour of where we just check in with each other as a family, right? I encourage my mom, she's been talking about sleep issues lately.

Kim Rapach (19:39.874)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (19:50.505)
And you know she likes to share Facebook rules and things like that I said you know give yourself start with like a 30 minute window Before bed that you're not using social media Right all of those things because you know we think about just how it impairs our thoughts our dreams even in our sleep It can be really disruptive to engage in in the busyness and the noisiness of social media before bed So again, it's different from everybody, but your point of starting with the self-compassion

is really key to this conversation.

Kim Rapach (20:23.404)
Yeah. And side note, a lot of our listeners are artists and I feel like a lot of artists are sensitive by nature. and sensitive to, know, not just emotions, but to stimuli and, you know, data input, you know, sensory input. And I know for me, it took once or twice to figure out like, cannot watch and it started with Tik TOK, right? I cannot watch Tik TOK videos before I go to bed.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (20:31.117)
for sure.

Kim Rapach (20:51.34)
because I am awake literally all night long. And any platform is like TikTok, there's so many videos coming across our feed. I just can't.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (20:53.737)
Yeah. It's cool.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (20:59.476)
Yeah, it's it's almost like it's almost like a caffeine rush that we get in the morning when we pour coffee when we do that It's a lot of dopamine coming at you at one time because you know these are Mostly funny, you know, obviously you're coming across some serious commentary, but you're being entertained You know in these like rapid speed ways. There's music coming at you You know, there's lights and filters and a lot of different layers

Kim Rapach (21:05.453)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (21:15.237)
huh.

Kim Rapach (21:18.744)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (21:28.659)
that are going to over stimulate you. So of course that's going to make it hard to rest.

Kim Rapach (21:31.222)
Yeah. Yeah. So if you're you talked about getting that rush of like, there's a lot of dopamine coming at you. And then the chemical when you're going to sleep is that serotonin

Dr. Corey Emanuel (21:38.439)
Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (21:44.893)
Yeah, yeah like we need the serotonin right we need that just relax Right so the dopamine that we're getting in in those moments before we go to sleep It's like overriding what should be that natural wind down of the day Yeah, it does and you know like I said to you know another thing I talk about a lot is we learn from the past even as we look at the present right so some of these things some of the research that you will find

Kim Rapach (21:47.682)
sort of computing them.

Kim Rapach (22:01.09)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (22:15.07)
really comes from what we learned from television. You we had a very long intimate relationship with television way before social media came along. So that's why this whole notion of, you know, not having a television in your bedroom is sometimes part of that discipline model too. Maybe your struggle listening to this isn't social media. Maybe yours is the television being on and maybe watching true crime before you go to sleep, you know.

Kim Rapach (22:23.543)
in

Kim Rapach (22:40.792)
talk about that? Can we talk about...

Dr. Corey Emanuel (22:42.055)
Yeah, like some people find that to be therapeutic. know, some folks have reported that that's therapeutic for them, but other people, they get sucked into binge watching, say, episodes of True Crime, and then they wonder, why is my sleep being disrupted? Why am I having these very disturbing dreams? Or why am I waking up sort of agitated or even anxious about the day? It's about what, like we say, cultivation theory.

is a model that we often talk about about how what you're watching absolutely has an effect on your thinking, your attitude, and your beliefs.

Kim Rapach (23:21.014)
Is there curiosity that would be helpful if someone enjoyed watching violence or true crime right before they go to bed and find it soothing? mean, the alarms go off for me. Do you want to talk about that?

Dr. Corey Emanuel (23:30.735)
Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (23:34.991)
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's it's definitely something that you know feet folks talk about and admit to and there's this there's this notion like the juxtaposition of like the chaos the dysfunction the polarity that shows up the violence that shows up in those shows is so counter to perhaps how your own life looks right that people

Kim Rapach (24:00.972)
Hmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (24:02.44)
They're motivated by that. They're motivated by that contrast. But we also have to go back to earlier in our conversation, we have to unpack what that's about. Like why is in my normal adult life where I probably have maybe a peaceful home, the kids are asleep, why am I sort of clinging to that as my wind down or my therapy? And we have to, again, look at our past. Where are there areas of dysfunction in your past that you made

Kim Rapach (24:11.502)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (24:32.061)
Normal and and we think like okay. I'm I've grown maybe I'm in therapy and I've healed from some things but some things are still very much a Comfort blanket if you will a security blanket, but it doesn't mean that it's a healthy security blanket. Yeah

Kim Rapach (24:33.09)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Rapach (24:45.838)
is

Kim Rapach (24:49.806)
Sure. You talked about the contrast and I was wondering about also the familiarity.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (24:56.154)
Absolutely. Yeah, like what and we think about that even in relationships and dating sometimes where people will feel like they're bored or this guy this girl just doesn't really have that spark for me Then if we unpack things sometimes maybe we can't came from an abusive past and so we always were on the edge We always had to be on Same principles when we think about social media and television and what we reach out for as our norm

it's familiar to your point.

Kim Rapach (25:25.154)
That's so interesting. I'd started having panic attacks when I started dating my now husband because he was the healthiest person I'd ever dated. And I was just like paranoid and anxious and started having panic attacks because it was so the peace and like the support and the kindness was so unfamiliar. There's like, my body didn't know what to do with that.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (25:33.598)
Mmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (25:48.413)
Foreign. Yeah, very foreign.

Yeah, so another thing I talk about or have talked about a good bit on social media is our attachment styles. And so many of us, I would say the majority of us come from some place of insecure attachment being modeled for us. And so we go through a lot of our early, say it again.

Kim Rapach (25:54.606)
It all works out, but...

Kim Rapach (26:14.35)
Do you want to go through those real quick? Do you want to go through those real quick?

Dr. Corey Emanuel (26:19.624)
Sure, so you have, the most, say, I hate to say popular, but the one that I find a lot of people that I talk to, or even if I'm just looking at a post and seeing the comments, I see a lot of people are in that anxious attachment style, right? So to your point, maybe your own personal experience, I know from mine, there was dysfunction in my household growing up, right? And so it kind of puts you in a space of like,

fearing are things okay, are trying to overcompensate to make things peaceful. That's where I see a lot of people operating in. There's also dismissive attachment style. So maybe you didn't get a lot of the love and care growing up that you yearn for and that you you crave. And so that became your norm. So now what I often see is a dismissive person and an anxious person will come together in a relationship and really have to work

through where both of them are sort of struggling with needing love, expressing love, and finding that balance. Then you've got the avoidant, right? The people who just like, they don't wanna have anything to do with love because maybe, know, it didn't feel safe growing up. Like love always felt like maybe something you had to perform for.

you just never really felt like a secure sense in love. And so you just rather just like, leave me out of it because I don't trust that, you know? And then there's also fearful avoidance where people who grew up usually in like adverse childhood experiences or some sort of toxic environment where it was sort of hot and cold, like you might get love today, but then depending on, you know, what one parent might've dealt with at work or, you know, with...

with their partner now they carry that they bring that into their dynamic with you and so then it's like shoot that's a that's a scary kind of love I don't want that and so it creates this hot cold dynamic and your partner is usually like I don't know what I'm gonna get today from from you if you're in that fearful avoidance so what I will say just to close it out is that there's a spectrum

Dr. Corey Emanuel (28:40.923)
when it comes to insecure and secure attachment styles there is never this point where as much as we would love that we just we've arrived and nothing when it in a relationship is gonna shake us because I've been the therapy and I've read all the books know you're human so again that that theme of self-compassion comes back around where you're gonna say some things that you might regret a little bit late you know later on because we're on the spectrum where you're not

always, hopefully forever, gonna be deeply seated in insecure attachment, but that you will move a little bit closer through lived experience, through your vulnerability, through your self-work towards a more secure attachment stop.

Kim Rapach (29:27.392)
Mm-hmm. Thank you for reviewing that for people who may not be familiar. Where does your passion for mental health come from?

Dr. Corey Emanuel (29:30.106)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (29:37.37)
Wow, so many things. I'm trying to think, you know, first of all, just growing up in a dysfunctional childhood dynamic, you know, my dad, who is now one of my best friends, really struggled with drugs and alcohol when I was a child. So that created what was a very much an anxious attachment style for me for a really long time because I saw my mom trying to smooth things out, trying to make the marriage work.

And my dad just being very dismissive in his nature because of how he grew up and so that was sort of the source of like early anxiety and even to this day me and my mom talk about how we have this sort of shared like gut stomach things when things are awry and I know it's sourced from early observations and things that I experienced in my childhood. So that would be the beginning.

Then I would say by the time I got to college it became a more pressing issue because I was really trying to rectify my relationship with church and spirituality because you know the stresses of just becoming an adult and navigating relationships and sexuality and sexual experience when you've been reared by the church and grown up in a Bible belt

It can really create this polarity with, okay, these are the values and things that I grew up under, but also like I'm coming into myself and what I'm finding truth in for myself doesn't look like what I've always been told is the way, the truth and the light, you know, that whole point of view. So it started early and I think it just, even to this day, like we think about

Kim Rapach (31:25.358)
and

Dr. Corey Emanuel (31:34.814)
the 2020 racial unrest that happened. We think about even what we're experiencing now as we see the war in Gaza, in social media. So there's always something that's coming up. And so that's why I encourage people that even when we're not in the midst of a crisis, maybe you're listening to this and right now you're in a really good place. Like nothing's to awry in your life, to be living a human experience.

You kind of have to know that you're going to be side swiped from time to time. That things are going to happen that you weren't prepared for. But if you've got a toolkit, it makes it just a little bit easier to navigate life's crisis. Does it mean it's going to be perfect? That you're not going to get upset? That you're not going to cry? No. All of that is the range of emotions that we experience in life. But doing the work, whether that's your journaling,

Kim Rapach (32:22.093)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (32:33.518)
because you're anxious and you need to maybe get some of that energy out on paper. Maybe it's exercise, maybe it's reading, whatever you need for you to create that balance. Therapy, can't emphasize that enough. There are group circles now. Maybe you don't wanna do therapy by yourself, but maybe you can come into dynamics like you and I have where we're like, we found common ground and now we're supporting one another as a community. Whatever folks need to...

create that balance around your mental health, I encourage that.

Kim Rapach (33:08.146)
Absolutely. And there's such an important intersection that I feel like we've just arrived at. You mentioned earlier about how, you know, a while back, like much of our information and our beliefs about the world came from television. And, you know, television impacted you and how you were able to see yourself and, you know, and church not so much, but the media influences us so much.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (33:14.095)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (33:36.268)
So I see the media influencing how we see ourselves, how we see the world. And it's not, you know, we get all the shiny parts of it for the most part. And then we have society telling us like, you deserve to feel better. know, you should drink it away. And, know, if you just buy this car, you'll feel better. Or if you get the Grammy or the Emmy nomination, get on that big stage, sell out an arena.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (33:41.721)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (34:06.048)
Just keep going so you don't have to feel anything. And then when you combine that, the intersection for me is if someone is being portrayed as having made it quote unquote, made it, and they're on the, what I call the front lines, because they're the ones impacting us. If they don't know how to feel and they don't have proper supports or tools.

and they do everything we've told them to do and then they arrive and they're still not happy. That's so dangerous. I see that's where we lose people. And so if we can normalize the human experience, like you said, it is going to sideswipe you. You can be famous and have the whole world on your side and life will still sideswipe you.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (34:37.261)
Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (34:49.721)
Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (34:55.936)
Absolutely, we have so many examples of that. There's actually a clip flowing around right now with Will Smith talking about that very thing and for any of our listeners who have read his book, he's very vulnerable and transparent in the becoming Will, even from childhood and in becoming the international superstar that we know and he talks about that very thing. He's like, perfect marriage, perfect kids, like I'm the number one

you know, bankable actor, and it still wasn't enough to fulfill me. And so I think the root of that, and even some of the things you just hit on, and I can reflect on my own life, we have to really look at the origins around feeling seen or not feeling seen. Feeling heard or not feeling heard. You know, because most of the time, that's the chase.

Kim Rapach (35:27.276)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (35:53.598)
all of the getting and the going and the doing and the networking and the trying to we're trying to feel like somebody finally sees me yeah and I think that from everything I've ever read you know interviews I've watched and even again my own personal experience we tend to always arrive at this point of well it was never the things it was never the thing it was never the job

Kim Rapach (36:22.093)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (36:22.579)
It was never the relationship, it was never the car that gave me that. It was only that deeper, inner knowing of who you are. And that's a lifelong process. So going back, again, original point, I feel like there are themes to our conversation is, you know, you... That work is just, you can't escape it. It is the work of life. It is the discipline in the boundary setting around social media.

It is, you know, as Kendrick Lamar says in his new song, Turn the TV Off, you know, because what it's feeding you in this particular moment in time isn't the thing that you need. You probably need A, B or C, you know, and it's again, it's different for everybody. Yeah. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (37:11.884)
Yeah, yeah. And I feel like when we have big names, it's so important for us to hear that truth. Because, you know, they're the role models.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (37:21.857)
for sure. They're the role models. Yeah, they're the role models. They are. They are. people, sometimes celebrities don't like to take onus of that and sometimes in our own ego, we don't want to admit that. But chances are there's someone that you've formed what I call a parasocial relationship with. Someone who doesn't know you, but you know them and you've...

you know, adopt certain ideals and beliefs about them through this perception you've made that that becomes your standard. You know, if I could have her body, I could have his muscles, and sometimes it's not always conscious, but there's this image that you have or that you're maintaining as what you're striving for and whatever that ideal is could slowly be killing you. If in no other way but just mentally, emotionally.

Kim Rapach (38:12.322)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Rapach (38:17.442)
Yeah, well, like I said, it's dangerous. It's dangerous for that person. And I feel like it's dangerous for the, I'm gonna the rest of us, but for lack of better terms, for someone who maybe isn't educated in psychology and they spend a lot of time on media and they're immersed in reality TV and television and the lives of celebrities. And then if we lose them,

What does that say to somebody? Like, well, if you had the wife and the car and the money and the fame and the love, and you had everything and you can't make it, how the hell am I gonna make it?

Dr. Corey Emanuel (38:56.193)
We think of, I mean, there's so many examples. think, you know, in recent times, one that seemingly affected so many of us was Robin Williams. You know, I don't know anybody that didn't love Robin Williams as a comedian, as an actor, and just always seemed to carry a smile and so much joy whenever we saw him on television and interviews and in movies that was so hard to fathom, like.

what was going on with him mentally that would make him want to leave this earth and some of those things we won't ever know, right? We won't really know the true deepest innermost parts of people's lives but it does make you, it makes you stop and pause and go, okay, it's not about the things, right? There's some work that I need to do that is going to, not overnight,

in any way, but slowly start to reveal to me the narratives, the wounds that maybe I forgot. I forgot that there was that one thing that happened when I was four or five. And I've been stuck. My inner child has been stuck and all of my pursuits in life have stemmed from that moment of like freeze. And so we develop these coping mechanisms, right?

Kim Rapach (40:07.447)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (40:21.79)
Social media is one of them. It serves as a distraction from the discomforts of life.

Kim Rapach (40:28.738)
Yeah, that is one of the hardest things that I try to help people work on, but I also hear just in everyday life, even on social media, like so many people still subscribe to this idea that distraction is the answer. Do you want to speak to that?

Dr. Corey Emanuel (40:45.417)
Yeah, yeah. It's easier. I mean, we as human beings, we're going to reach for what is easiest. You know, from McDonald's on the way home, because I don't feel like cooking. When I have all the groceries, I know there's much more healthy options in my refrigerator. I don't want to do it, right? To, I have this book proposal that I've been saying I want to turn in, but...

Kim Rapach (40:49.912)
For sure.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (41:13.853)
I just spent the last hour scrolling, right? Like it's easier to do. So of course we do it. But you know, as I often say, like everything that's really amazing and great about your life usually comes from going against the grain of what you've always done. Like if you, if we get really honest, whether it's the weight loss journey, whether it's completing the script, whatever,

You got really serious. You became really disciplined. You set some boundaries and you got it done and you're grateful that you did it That's it. It's not even like it's hard. Yes, not ever downplaying that but it's also simple and We kind of over complicate it and I think the over complication can eat can be even more complicated

Kim Rapach (41:55.264)
and it was worth it.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (42:13.843)
depending on your life and the way things have unfolded for you. know, people who may not have had the most adverse childhood experiences and dysfunctions, they may not need, they probably don't need the same coping mechanisms that you do, right? So we also have to normalize that. I think in being humans and looking for connection and belonging, we sometimes want to...

have this like shared experience and we all through so many similarities have pretty unique experiences that require now a unique approach to move through them to the other side. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (42:55.374)
Sure. Yeah, and we don't want to overemphasize the shared experience to minimize somebody else's individual experience and now their coping mechanisms or their responses. So, yeah, individual and collective. Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (43:09.48)
Yeah, for sure.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (43:14.78)
Exactly exactly and and not underestimating how One is constantly influencing the other You know we talk about that in the book proposal to that like you know we come into social media Like we said at the top of the conversation we each bring whatever things like You may have had a really rough morning with your partner a rough night with your partner You know somebody cut you off in traffic

And the first thing we're reaching for now is social media. And so what type of energy do you think you're gonna bring into that space if that's been your experience? If you've never felt a sense of like that people respected you or really listened to what you had to say, you're always gonna be on defense. And we're gonna see it in the comments. know, and I could go down this rabbit hole all day, but yeah, that's...

That's the sort of granular process that this thing takes is dissecting. Where am I at? Like, okay, I woke up this morning. Was the first thing I did was reach for my phone? Or if you're someone who practices gratitude, did you acknowledge that you're now in a new day? You know, have you given yourself a chance to like just stretch? Maybe drink a glass of water before you get into...

Let me respond to this text message. Let me respond to this email. Okay. I got this notification from Apple News What's this news story about you've got to get grounded? At the top of the day and at the end of the day you've got to take time to come down From all of the wars of this world that would have showed up in that day. It's that type of balance Yeah, and this isn't this isn't me

Kim Rapach (44:59.438)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (45:03.142)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (45:07.678)
This isn't me preaching something that I don't have to practice. I'm always very candid about everything that I'm saying to our listeners, I'm having to do myself. I'd be lying if I say I don't get triggered from certain social media comments and things like that. just, it may not even be something I've posted, but I'm reading and I'm like, that's not how that went or how that goes. And then needing to not bring therapy.

Kim Rapach (45:16.877)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Rapach (45:20.398)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Rapach (45:30.606)
you

Dr. Corey Emanuel (45:35.735)
into situations with people who you know I don't even operate in the therapy space you know I'm a coach and so it takes all of this sort of like attunement to really be able to navigate this thing in such a way that it doesn't overwhelm you

Kim Rapach (45:54.222)
Sure, and I don't know if you'd have anything in addition to offer, but a lot of artists struggle with, and even myself, I've struggled with this, just the necessary, what is the word I'm looking for? Having to use social media.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (46:14.876)
you

Kim Rapach (46:16.302)
You know, the person, the artist who says, if I didn't have to have followers, if I didn't have to put out my tour schedule, I wouldn't even have social media. And I have felt that way myself. Like, I just want to coach. I don't want to navigate, you know, the algorithm, if you will. And I didn't have a business, I don't know if I would have it.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (46:24.658)
Yeah, for sure. It's a real thing. It's...

Dr. Corey Emanuel (46:33.084)
Yeah, and personal Yeah first one billion percent And so I'll give you a couple of different angles to this first of all in full transparency It's something that I struggle with I am someone as a media psychologist Who loves meeting people where they are and feeling like I'm offering them something to help better they look better their lives Social media is a great Conduit to that right and I love that

Kim Rapach (46:47.214)
Thank you.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (47:01.479)
But me, at the core of who I am, I don't really want to be on like that. really like, you know, I grew up as an only child. I'm a Sagittarius, so I'm very independent. I can kind of create my own world outside of the rest of the world. And I sort of thrive in that space. But it isn't realistic really for my purpose, my calling and the work that I want to do in the world. So I have to find that balance. But so that's part of it.

But what I found for me often times is using the tools. You know, like again, going in, scheduling a few posts. So that if I want to say, you know what, I'm not doing it today. I'm going to give myself 24 hours and I'm not doing it. Well, the post is out there and people will leave comments. And when I log back in on tomorrow, I can reply and respond to people, right? Discipline. Like I talk about another friend of mine, she's notorious for taking breaks away, like months at a time.

And she just told me recently, she was like, somebody, instead of just DMing me, they clicked on my email on my profile, emailed me, I'm still checking my email, and she booked a brand partnership because somebody emailed her. So this notion that I'm gonna miss out on all of these opportunities, your opportunities are still gonna find you, right? And so everybody again has to sort of...

Kim Rapach (48:23.896)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (48:28.24)
take the approach that makes sense for them. know, if you're already finding that the bulk of your revenue that you make as a business owner is coming by way of you interacting with people via your DM, okay, that's a lifestyle thing, that's your salary, that's how you make money. You probably gotta be a little bit more in tune with checking in. But if that's not your story,

Then you've got to interrogate. Well, why do I have such an attachment to it? It isn't like my business is booming because I'm responding to all these DMS or because I'm constantly in the comments replying to people We sort of sold ourselves on that as as a point of use when it comes to being on social media But I think it's time that we sort of interrogate How much of this is actually necessary? You know I'm saying like this we think about this this podcast we're doing

Dr. Corey Emanuel (49:23.493)
right now right there'll be a point where to be edited and we'll put it on social media and we hope to create some engagement in some community so the data that drops sure I need to sort of be attuned to what's happening we also know that plays into the algorithm right so there's those things that we have to take into consideration as a business owner so I never want to negate that there's sort of this game that we have to play but it's also not this black and white

Kim Rapach (49:46.882)
Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (49:52.645)
detrimental thing that yeah like I had to be on social media seven days a week at least two hours a day for my business to grow. That's probably not how that is unfolding. Yeah. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (50:04.686)
Yeah. Well, and I find, you know, again, back to artists, I find, I don't necessarily, I never have a feeling of like, they don't post enough. And if they're if they're genuine, and they're themselves, and they, you know, I mean, everything is we're so inundated, like, sometimes, no, no offense to anybody, but we don't notice when people go away. We notice when they come back.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (50:17.209)
Yet.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (50:31.611)
We don't. We do.

Kim Rapach (50:33.684)
And so, and if they're genuine and they're honest, they're like, Hey, you know, I took a break for a week. took a break for a month, but here's my tour schedule or here's my new film or here's my new offer. It's like, cool. I miss them that they're amazing. love them. And it just over worry.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (50:47.163)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. And you even speak to, for sure, you even speak to the transparency around that. Like what really works for a lot of entrepreneurs is if you're going to take a week off, maybe you're going on vacation. You're like, I'm going in airplane mode for two weeks. If you put that on a post or a story and just let people know, hey, I'm taking a break. But if you are interested in working with me, please email me. Here's my website. Like if you just give people a window of access for you or to you,

Nothing's lost, but you have to put those kind of systems in place right make sure your website is up to speed and you know all of the links are working so that people can get in touch with you, but we've made it be as Essential as it is right so so that means that we also get to decide It's it's not as pressing as I've been making it out to be yeah

Kim Rapach (51:32.877)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Rapach (51:39.33)
Yeah, it's not as urgent, think, most for most of us. It's not urgent.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (51:45.658)
For most of us, right? Like you and I, like I think it's beautiful when these moments happen and we find each other, right? Like it's just, it was something that happened organic. And that's where the real beauty lies, you know, if somebody reaches out to me or I stumble onto somebody and they may not even posted anything within the last couple of weeks, but their work was speaking for them. I think that's a beautiful means of connection that we sometimes underestimate in the...

constant need to post and beyond. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (52:17.206)
Yeah, you know, and that was really that was a win. I don't usually use threads. And then I was like, you know, I think I'm ready for some additional guests on the podcast. And I just posted a thread I didn't know I was gonna get 500 plus responses. It's not gonna be a lot of work for myself. But I did the weeding and I'm happy with where I landed. I've had some great conversations.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (52:26.724)
Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (52:33.838)
Wow, wow. Right. Yeah. But you bring up another valid point though, is that not all social media platforms are the same. You know I'm saying? Like there are some people who their niche is TikTok and TikTok is how they're really building a great roster list where it might be crickets for them on Instagram or LinkedIn. And so that's part of it too is

thinking really about your niche, what is your area of specialty, I'm sure one of many things you do is being a great podcast host. So yeah, from time to time you need to solicit guests to be on the show. Threads, proven, anybody listening, a great way, and I see it all the time. People are like, hey, I'm new to LA and I'm looking for a writer's community. Let me know and flood it.

Kim Rapach (53:15.128)
Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (53:29.337)
But people have been like, hey, we meet on Wednesday nights. we do a virtual Zoom every Saturday morning. You find your community, but it will vary depending on the platform. And that's OK. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (53:39.96)
Sure. Yeah, that's amazing. So you can answer this or not, but I always say answer whatever you're comfortable with. I'll add about anything else. Have you wrestled with your own mental health?

Dr. Corey Emanuel (53:47.863)
Okay.

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (53:58.744)
Absolutely. I identify as queer and so in my college experience that was like my first time like being away from the church pressure that I had felt so much growing up and you know exploring what that meant for me and that was a time for sure where I had the suicide ideation come up for me because I couldn't reconcile

everything that I had been taught and conditioned to believe, which was mostly that if you weren't completely heterosexual, you were gonna burn in hell, right? And so there was, you know, a few years of that where I was just like, if I'm gonna disappoint God and I'm gonna disappoint everybody who's loved me and reared me and cared for me, what's the point of being here? You know, and it wasn't until becoming vocal about that, that I found my community.

Kim Rapach (54:36.771)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (54:55.363)
that I felt like, I'm going to school with a lot of people who have my same sort of trajectory. We're all in a very similar boat, right? So just finding safe places to talk about what I was dealing with, having friends who I'd grown up with who maybe that wasn't what was coming up for them, but something else was. Maybe they had had a...

a child before they got pregnant or we all kind of were like finding like we're all these misfits in this kind of way and that was really helpful. I think a lot of times when people for example experience suicidal thoughts the very most heavy thing you feel is I'm all alone and that nobody's gonna understand what I'm dealing with or what I'm going through. So that for sure was like the very first like big major

Even being able to understand why somebody would take their life. You know what I'm saying? Like, you get there. And so it allowed me not only to pursue therapy for the first time, because like, okay, I can't do this. It's great having community and they're supportive of me. And I know I have them when I'm in a dark spot, but like, I also need to develop a toolkit for when the thoughts get dark and heavy like this. So therapy was a huge help for me. And then just...

Kim Rapach (55:52.429)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (56:18.839)
pursuing the field of psychology. You know, I think that a lot of times we get into a profession, sometimes particularly in our younger age and it's like, I just want to make money and I want to have a better life than I did growing up, which valid, right? Who wouldn't want that? But also it's like, what's the work that not only fuels me, but that could change me? And so I remember when I took that first sociology course, I believe.

Kim Rapach (56:42.135)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (56:48.523)
my freshman or sophomore year that was like, perfect timing, because undergrad, things are coming up for me, thoughts, feelings I never had before, I've got some tools to start navigating this thing. Then I remember my senior year in college, I took a group counseling as an elective course and I was like, this is what it feels like to have someone facilitate.

meaningful conversations around real life things that are happening, that's great. And it just continued. And all of it was just to prepare me again to meet people where they are. I can't tell you how many times I've talked friends off the ledge that literally didn't want to be here anymore. To be able to have a conversation in whole space for someone who

Kim Rapach (57:35.467)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (57:43.735)
They're one step away from being evicted. And to be able to give them not only a couch to sleep on, but to give them understanding around, this is temporary. We're gonna get through this together. Where again, people feel like they're not going through the hardships of life alone. I think that's the biggest sort of mental health theme.

Kim Rapach (58:07.029)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (58:11.095)
that I've always seen from my own personal life to the people that I interact with and meet, even, you know, perfect strangers. People wanna feel like I'm not going through this alone to somebody else, even if you're not dealing with the same exact thing, that you have any sort of proximity to how hard life is. And once they feel seen in that way, that's where you start to see the pivot. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (58:37.89)
Yeah. Well, first I want to say, I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're still here, that you chose you. I relate very strongly to that feeling. It's terrifying when you go from not understanding how someone could take their life to now I understand and I'm scared to death. That's what jolted me was like, now I get it because I'm there.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (58:41.741)
Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (58:55.212)
Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (58:58.848)
Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Kim Rapach (59:04.714)
And you know, that was, you know, that's a big reason for the podcast is because I think people who struggle with the dark or they struggle with their dark thoughts, or they, know, someone, you know, as you know, with complex trauma, has a hard time staying regulated, they may act out more, you know, have big emotions, and they think something's wrong with them. And so I wanted to create a space where people, and, you know, pretty much that's what everyone says is like, you're not alone. You're not alone. And I just

Dr. Corey Emanuel (59:17.483)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (59:22.795)
Yeah, for sure.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (59:32.267)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kim Rapach (59:34.026)
Not that I want to normalize, like that's how we want people to feel obviously, but I want to normalize the humanity of feeling that way and that you are not alone and that through community, through resources, through connections, through share, through your work.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (59:47.979)
Through your work and through your work. know, like being a creative, I believe is one of the best outlets for expression. Whether it's sadness, anger, grief, it might be in writing a song, singing the song, writing a book, writing a script that you get to release that.

And when we do that, that to me, that's where the real magic happens because how many of us have read a book or been to a movie and it's like, this is literally my life. So sharing it, telling people what you're going through as hard as that can be can set so many people free.

Kim Rapach (01:00:20.824)
change their lives.

Kim Rapach (01:00:33.934)
Sure. Yep. Agreed.

Thank you. What would you say? I'm going to ask you just one more question. What do you do on a regular basis to protect your own mental health? Like, do you have non-negotiables? I know you talked about discipline. Do you have other things that you do?

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:00:38.571)
Thank you. This has been such a beautiful day. Sure.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:00:54.784)
Yeah, like my toolkit is pretty expansive at this point. You know, it's do not disturb on my phone. It is not feeling like I have to answer every phone or text immediately when it comes through. Because like you said earlier, there's all of these things that want to create a sense of urgency in our lives that it's not urgent. You know I'm saying? Like something one of my friends helped me with a few years ago, because again, me being an only child, I've always

lean very heavily on my closest friendship circle because like they're my family and I remember she said one time she was like you know and I know people probably feel some kind of way because I'm always on do not disturb if they were in emergency she was like but if you're in emergency like what can I do she's like I can know that you're in a place of distress and maybe I can make my way to say the hospital but in that moment you need to call 9-1-1 and I think that's it could feel like a harsh

better pill for some people to hear that from like one of their best friends but it's real because again everybody's dealing with their own things you don't know that in a moment where you might be going through something that that person just literally they don't have the capacity at that moment to show up for you doesn't mean that they don't love you but yeah call call 9-1-1 they're gonna give you that urgent care and get you to the help that you need or you know call triple-a

Kim Rapach (01:02:10.092)
Not personal.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:02:18.869)
to help you with that flat tire. Like I don't even have the tools to help you with the flat tire. Like it becomes that granular. So I think going back to your question, just having a toolkit of things, your toolkit can consist of boundaries, things like you said, non-negotiables like, I'm not doing that, saying no, having at least one person maybe in proximity that if something went down, they can get to you.

Kim Rapach (01:02:22.424)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (01:02:47.694)
Mm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:02:48.01)
create that toolkit to be what you need it to be. But I would say also just as one last thing is getting outside and movement is really good for me. Like I cannot emphasize enough how much movement is medicine. And that could be a hike, working out, it could be getting down on the floor just stretching. Again, whatever you need for you, your toolkit is unique to you.

Kim Rapach (01:03:00.014)
Thank you.

Kim Rapach (01:03:04.801)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Rapach (01:03:16.844)
What is one, I know I said I only had one more question. If you give a good answer, then I have another question. What is one non-negotiable that you have that you refuse to let go of, but you just wouldn't have your mental wellness without?

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:03:19.242)
It's okay.

Yes, sir.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:03:36.368)
It's from Maya Angelou. It's like when someone shows you who they are believe them I believe that we go through life trying to Be a lot of things to people who just aren't worthy of that level of Of our attention and care right now that doesn't mean you're cruel that doesn't mean you're a mean person right I'm not suggesting that at all but

Kim Rapach (01:03:42.894)
Mmm.

Kim Rapach (01:03:54.603)
and

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:04:06.578)
A lot of us, sometimes it's a parent, sometimes it's a sibling that every time I have a conversation with you, I walk away feeling just depleted, like that I just, I don't feel good. And so creating boundaries doesn't mean that you don't love them, but you're creating just enough distance so that you don't become consumed or overwhelmed with their stuff.

And so when I say, when people show you who they are, believe them, like it could be a friend or a family member who's just in a very negative pattern of life. Like I'll use a recent example that my mom gave me about one of her friends who, the friend is dealing with some marital issues, right? And so every conversation she calls and wants to have with my mom has to deal with that.

Kim Rapach (01:04:46.094)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:05:02.505)
And my mom feels like I've given her so many tools, Cory. I've recommended books, podcasts, I've sent her a blog. I've done all of the things. She's choosing not to use these tools, but she wants to consume my time and energy to rehash the same conversation. So I said, okay, she's showing you who she is in the season. Doesn't mean she'll always be here.

Kim Rapach (01:05:08.226)
Action!

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:05:27.325)
but you've gotta give that relationship some time and some distance because otherwise you'll end up resenting her and then the friendship will be completely null and void and so that people showing you who you are, who they are and believing them that works across in so many it might be red flags that you're getting from a new dating relationship you know it might be you know someone at work that you notice like gosh every time I see this person in the cafeteria or

It's always the same sort of negative thinking and thought process and I find myself going down this like rabbit hole or spiral when I talk to them. Those are the signs to sort of be aware of. So that's one of my biggest non-negotiables is I'm not going, I will hold space for you but there will be a time limit on that as well. If I see that you aren't doing your own work and I'm sort of doing the work on your behalf, that doesn't benefit you.

And it's depleting me. So I would say that's probably my primary, particularly at this age.

Kim Rapach (01:06:34.23)
Yeah, that's brilliant. Do you find that given that you're a psychologist and you're I mean, you're not just a psychologist, not that there's anything wrong with that, but you're even so much more and just your energy is very magnetic. Do you find that you have to have that boundary around like I'm not everybody's therapist. I'm not everybody's coach. Yeah, same.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:06:41.276)
Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:06:47.154)
Thank you.

absolutely, because since

1 billion...because since childhood I remember being... my mom put me on a plane for the first time by myself when I was 10 years old which was one of the best gifts she could have ever given me and I remember even then like I would be sitting next to someone on a plane who was my parents age if not older and they'd want to just share their whole life with me and I'm like I'm a kid like why are they telling me all of these things and so I had to start

sort of building that muscle early on of like I will say hello and I'll be friendly but I kind of have to create these conversational blocks if you will or pivots in conversation so that people don't just completely dump all of their stuff on me every time we talk and it's not an easy thing like going back to our earlier message about all of this stuff is that it takes work

you know, because you do want to protect your mental health. You want to be able to, you know, I can't, I can't fill anybody else's cup up if mine is empty. You have to be cognizant of the nuance of just doing relationships with people. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (01:08:05.666)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So much goodness. Is there anything else that we might have missed that you would like to say or you wish people understood about any of topics we've covered?

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:08:17.692)
Just, you know, I... Yeah, I just want to encourage people in this day and age of just constant stimulation, whether it's social media, the latest, you know, best television show or movie that people are raving about to literally, like really get clear about what you need in the season of life that you're in. Maybe that particular show and the topic isn't good for your mental health right now.

Maybe it is gonna be triggering for you to watch that. I think we all could use less time on social media. I don't care who you are, what walk of life. We all could use less time there. just exercising that, right? Meaning maybe tonight it's like, okay, I have noticed that I'm like literally falling asleep with the phone in my hand. Something a good friend of mine encouraged me to do years ago. This was before I even became a media psychologist.

But something that I still practice to this day is plug the phone in the next room over. You know, if you've got an alarm set on it, you're gonna hear it, right? You know, but do you need that phone to be right next to you on your nightstand? So just those sort of, they're micro steps, but they can have a macro outcome if you're willing to lean into the discipline. is about everything we've talked about on this

Kim Rapach (01:09:37.1)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:09:44.518)
podcast today is about building good habits, better habits, right? Better habits with ourselves, with others, and certainly with technology and media.

Kim Rapach (01:09:48.64)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kim Rapach (01:09:56.778)
Mm hmm. Yeah, such good stuff. Something I think every single person artist or not can relate to. So for real this time, one final question. I know parting words for someone for an artist who may be in the dark struggling with their thoughts and thinking like I don't I don't even know if it's worth it.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:09:59.846)
Yeah.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:10:05.101)
Absolutely.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:10:08.812)
Okay, okay.

Yes.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:10:23.94)
hmm first of all it's worth it because you're worth it whatever it is you're working on and and and be clear about the fact that What you're working on may just be for you and That's humbling in a sense you're like wait all of this work and time and energy because of you're being stretched and you're being strengthened You're being supported by a podcast like this

to bring that thing to pass. And maybe that thing is just for you. Maybe it's just for one other person. I can't tell you how many times over the years I put something out and, know, again, based on algorithm, maybe it was the content itself, it just didn't go far. Somebody will reach out and say, my God, I just stumbled across this video you put out like a month ago, and it really spoke to me to where I was today. If we can do more of that,

society we're gonna be okay so again whatever it is you're feeling like you're not worth it you are so worthy the gifts the talent the idea the brilliance of you is needed you're needed it's needed keep going

Kim Rapach (01:11:43.726)
Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Corey. I look forward to keeping in touch.

Dr. Corey Emanuel (01:11:47.59)
Thank you so much, Kim.