The Work of Warriors

Kim Rapach (00:01.922)

Ien Chi (00:36.316)
Hey, Kim. How are you?

Kim Rapach (00:37.238)
Hi, Ian. I'm good. How's it going?

Ien Chi (00:42.068)
Good, it's good, it's good. Just making sure my... Oh, you are, okay. Okay, no worries, no worries.

Kim Rapach (00:44.83)

Ien Chi (00:54.224)
Yeah, that's a good idea actually. That's a technique for documentary interviews as well, just to capture any of the accidental magic that might happen.

Kim Rapach (01:00.692)
Oh, is it? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So how are things looking on your end recording?

Ien Chi (01:12.156)

Kim Rapach (01:31.662)
Awesome. Well, welcome to the work of warriors. Thank you for saying yes.

Ien Chi (01:35.528)
Thank you for having me. Yeah, we touched base last time briefly, and I was like, oh, this speaks right to my soul. And I feel like I don't know, I've spoken about it in the past, but it's just something I don't get tired of speaking about at all. So thank you.

Kim Rapach (01:52.762)
Yeah, absolutely. And there's I don't know what it is, but there's a quote. And I'm going to botch it, but something about if you're, if you just be yourself, your people will find you right. And you and I had a conversation, first time meeting over zoom and it was just so easy and so natural. And we're in alignment on so many things that are values, you know? And so I'm just like, there it is. We just, and like you, I can't.

Ien Chi (02:02.953)
Mmm.

Ien Chi (02:14.601)
Yeah, truly.

Kim Rapach (02:19.146)
I just don't get tired of having these conversations about mental wellness and, you know, the journey and the industry. And in fact, I had, I had something come up right before our call. And I was like, I mean, I know I could cancel. I know Ian would understand, but I'm like, it's these conversations that fill my cup. I need to have this conversation. And it's, you know, weighing, you know, I'm no longer in the business of hustle and grind and push through, you know, and get it done.

Ien Chi (02:39.557)
Yeah, yes.

Kim Rapach (02:48.278)
But it's like these conversations, that's not what that is for me. These conversations are, they're soul filling for me. So I'm so glad that you're here.

Ien Chi (02:51.882)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (02:55.58)
I love that phrase, soul filling. The reason, yeah, just for some context for listeners, I made this new company in this new phase of my life, but the name of it is Nourish. Nourish Creative, just for the very reason that after having encountered burnout, which I'm sure we'll dive into more, I was like, I really wanna make something that is like soul filling, like you said.

Oh, I think I might have.

Kim Rapach (03:25.97)
Yeah, that fills you up.

Ien Chi (03:29.124)
having issues communicating with our servers, trying to reconnect. Oh, can you hear me now?

Kim Rapach (03:36.223)
Is that yours?

Ien Chi (03:37.648)
Maybe, I don't know. It said it was reconnecting to the servers for a second. But anyways, yeah. So after I burned out, which I'm sure we'll go into much more, I made this company and the name of it is Nourish because I really wanted to create something as you say, that is like soul filling, which the entire world is not designed to be soul filling, it seems. You know? So it's gotta be intentional. It's gotta be intentional to...

Kim Rapach (04:02.711)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (04:07.668)
feed one's soul and try to take step by step walking that path, which at first seems lonely, but you come across people who are walking that path as you start walking that path more and more, which is why we connected too. So yeah, yeah.

Kim Rapach (04:24.87)
Yeah. You just the world, your little, your little tiny lonely community gets bigger and bigger. And I think for people who are focused on mental wellness, and especially those who are creative, who are artists, it's it just opens up so much more. It's not like you just have more people around you. It's like you have more meaning around you, right?

Ien Chi (04:33.82)
Yes.

Ien Chi (04:48.405)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah.

Kim Rapach (04:50.902)
Yeah, you use the word intentional. That is probably, probably my favorite word actually, because you can address anything if you're intentional, right? You can address your boundaries, your communication. You can enhance your relationships, your, you know, your physical fit, everything required. If you're going to be successful, it requires you to be intentional, you know, not motivated, not great at, you know.

Ien Chi (04:58.332)
Oh wow.

Ien Chi (05:03.878)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (05:15.279)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (05:19.538)
And anything, if you're intentional, you can figure it out and make things better.

Ien Chi (05:23.396)
Yes, yes, I think so. And a lot of the burnout for me came from the space of trying to grab at things because I didn't feel like I had everything I needed within myself, you know, which has a lot to do with feeling this lack and void inside. But intention, I love that word so much too, because it's about bringing to life

what is already within you, whether it's this idea or a lifestyle, and then what's already within you, you're just then creating it outside of yourself. It comes from inside and goes outward. And it's not something that's outside that you try to grab to take in. It's funny, I was literally before we met, I was writing this post on LinkedIn where I was sharing my reflection on the difference between.

grabbing and expressing, which are two different types of creation. And for so much of my previous life, it came from that grabbing mentality of, Oh, this is a great opportunity. It's going to take me farther in my career. Or, Oh, I'm, you know, got to make something like this. So it gets those views. Um, or, you know, just growing for the sake of growth. Um, whereas expressing is having such a clear idea of what it is I want.

Kim Rapach (06:22.518)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (06:50.26)
and it doesn't really matter if it does super well or doesn't do well. I'm going to find a way to monetize this thing that I love no matter what it takes and I'm going to take, you know, I'm going to take these ideas in my brain and find a way to make it happen and express it in the world outside of myself because it's something I wish I existed in the world that's not quite there yet. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (07:16.658)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so you said my previous self. And I know that I had the pleasure of seeing your Ted Talk. John Braggill introduced us to each other and he had sent your Ted Talk to me. And of course I loved it and immediately reached out.

Ien Chi (07:20.137)
Yeah.

Yes.

Ien Chi (07:27.157)
Hmm.

Kim Rapach (07:34.37)
But do you want to say a little bit about what your experience, you know, professionally has been in the industry and how that kind of led you to where you are today? I would love to hear. We talked in generalities when we first met, but I would love to hear more of the story and how things, you know, what you were doing and how things unfolded to where you are now.

Ien Chi (07:39.464)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (07:43.901)
Yes.

Ien Chi (07:48.113)
Hmm.

Ien Chi (07:52.512)
Sure, yeah, yeah. Well.

There's a lot to the journey, but if I were to kind of get to the essence of it, I think since a young age, I've been interested in two things. One is this idea of figuring out what life is about and gaining wisdom and insight into how to be the best person that I could be. And that was probably influenced by me being a pastor's kid.

Um, just this really deep curiosity and desire to just be the best person I could possibly be, right? Just, you know, more loving, more compassionate, more hardworking, all these things. And then the second love of my life was filmmaking, which I did ever since a very young age in middle school. And it was such a joyful activity with my friends to frolic around with a camera and make videos and films. And.

I combined the two of these things, the seeking of life wisdom and substance and filmmaking. And these two kind of combined together with this mission of utilizing filmmaking to really change the world and make it a better place and speak to people and empower them, challenge them and all these things. The only caveat with this mission was

I always wanted to feel like I was, you know, utilizing my full potential and I was really doing my best all the time. And as I got older, you know, through college and graduating and doing freelance filmmaking and working at this media company called Jubilee and all these things, there was a certain amount of success as my skills grew. But there was always this feeling of like, I don't feel like I'm...

Ien Chi (09:54.144)
fulfilling my full potential. Like there's always something more, something bigger to do. You know, this idea of changing the world. Like, you know, by the time I got to this company called Jubilee, we'd literally had millions of subscribers and we're getting millions and millions of views. But somehow I was even more anxious than ever because I felt like...

I mean, at the time it was just like a combination of wanting to change even more people's lives. And yeah, the goalpost keeps moving. And also internally, what I felt as time went on was I was really trying to figure out this self-love thing. Like I would hear it in books and in conversations.

Kim Rapach (10:26.794)
That goalpost keeps moving on ya.

Ien Chi (10:46.492)
I even took this like transformational course that turned out to kind of be a cult thing, all in pursuit of trying to figure out how to love myself. Because no matter what I did, even if it was apparently accomplishing a lot, I just didn't feel like I was fulfilling my full potential. And if I didn't feel like I was fulfilling my potential, you know, I couldn't quite pat myself on the back and say, good job.

you've done really well. It was like there was no end and the harder I tried, the more I kept feeling this void of, well, I'm trying really hard, but I feel like

more anxiety than ever.

Kim Rapach (11:33.182)
And there were other things patting you on the back, right? You won some awards, you were successful in your career. Yeah, so you're getting the external validation.

Ien Chi (11:36.78)
Yeah. Oh, tons. Yeah, totally.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, at the height of the growth, especially at Jubilee, which is now a pretty well known brand among young people, you know. Yeah, we have just been nominated for like influencer of the year award, you know. Around like 2020 maybe is when we hit 5 million subscribers. We had over a billion views on all our content and we had made the

world trending list like at least 20 times on YouTube globally. So there was a clear mark we had made on culture and tons of people were making things that were kind of spin-offs of our content and huge impact, like really huge.

Ien Chi (12:30.428)
But it's probably in combination with the pandemic when we were all home and not really going out, that it's just a really...

a very insecure place that I was in. Also this tremendous pressure to upkeep this image of success and anything I did, I felt like I couldn't step out of line and I had to kind of.

You know, I was the guy that had achieved a certain amount of success. So I can't I can't show, you know, weakness and things like this. Like I'm the guy that's supposed to be inspiring people with, you know, my wisdom and filmmaking talent and things like this. Right. So there was the added pressure of this identity that had felt like such a weight. But the turning.

Kim Rapach (13:25.222)
Yes, somewhere we somewhere like along the lines of success, we lose the permission, I feel like to also be human. It's like if you're successful, and you've got that image or you've you know, you've got that, that look upfront, right? It's like, and now you can't be a human being because you can't make mistakes. You can't, you know, show vulnerability. You can't have emotions. You can't have a bad day.

Ien Chi (13:34.634)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (13:42.302)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (13:52.169)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (13:52.202)
And it's like, I don't know why or where that happens, but I see it all the time.

Ien Chi (13:57.528)
It is so imprisoning and yeah, so draining because as you were referencing earlier in our conversation, you can't be yourself anymore. When you're yourself, you're not really, you don't have to really try anything to go out of your way to create some kind of image. But when you're trying not to be yourself, to upkeep an image, it's...

Yeah, I think that was a huge contribution to the burnout for sure. But, um.

Kim Rapach (14:29.44)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (14:32.868)
You know, it came to a headway, like a breaking point where, you know, I decided to quit my job. And there's other things that happen at the same time, like, you know, like losing a friend and losing a lot of money and things like that. But eventually it just got to a point where, like I was...

I had to put up the white flag of like, I'm too tired. Like I can't keep doing this. So I went home, not knowing what was next in my life, had quit my job, left LA, left all my friends. But there was Atlanta, Georgia. That's where I grew up. It's more peaceful than kind of the Hollywood environment that I was in at the time.

Kim Rapach (15:14.378)
And where's home? Where was home?

Ien Chi (15:31.4)
But in my TED talk, I talk about this turning point that I had when I was sitting on my bed in my childhood bedroom. I'm in that room right now actually. And I was just sitting on my bed, just kind of, just processing like how I had gotten here. Like, you know, I used to be so full of joy in life and passion and that, like, how did I get here? Like what happened that I got here? And there was...

this thought that came into my brain of.

Ien Chi (16:07.344)
like what is the definition of insanity? Like that question came to my mind, which I had heard in the past. And then this other quote came to my mind that I read somewhere in the past of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting the same results. And so I felt like I was being asked a question by God or the universe or source, whatever you wanna call it.

And the question was like, Ian, like, what is the same thing you've been doing over and over and over again, expecting the same results? And I really had to think about it for a couple of minutes because I, it was so vast, the places I had searched, the books I'd read, you know, all these things. And I was trying to find the commonality of what the same thing in all these activities were. But I realized the common thread among everything I was doing was I was trying to change myself. Like I was trying to change myself to become better.

to become more accomplished. I was trying to become a more loving person. You know, I was trying to somehow in all these activities, whether it was to be successful or more wise, I was always trying to improve as a human being. But then it kind of hit me where I realized

Ien Chi (17:26.908)
Like, what if I don't try to improve all the time? Like, what if I don't have to become better, a better version of myself all the time? And it was such a radical idea. It was so simple, but it was so radical because my entire life had been driven by this growth mindset of always, you know, topping the last version of myself. But it was never accepting of myself.

Kim Rapach (17:51.614)
I have to tell you, I have to tell you right now, just when you said that, what if I didn't try to change anything? Like I'm just head to toe goosebumps. Just, oh yeah. Just head to toe.

Ien Chi (17:55.067)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (18:00.732)
Hmm. It was radical for me, you know, like really radical. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it took me a while to really understand what that meant. And I'm still understanding today and on that journey. But essentially, the paradigm shift that happened was just.

Kim Rapach (18:07.293)
It's so powerful.

Ien Chi (18:26.376)
You know, the core message of my TED talk was coming across this idea of radical self-acceptance.

all the parts of myself that I didn't like. The anxiety, the self-courtesy, trying to get rid of these negative thoughts all the time, backing out and being like, okay, what if I can't get rid of this stuff, but it's my job to actually accept this stuff and to work with it? And so that marked a huge turning point in my life.

this huge paradigm shift of, yeah, willfulness to just tapping into much more flow and becoming more conscious and a lot of shadow work, like aiming to uproot the darkest parts of myself that I avoid and resist and create space for it without judgment.

Ien Chi (19:37.112)
And I took a sabbatical. I took a whole year off from work because I felt intuitively that I just need to carve out this abundant time and space where I don't have to do anything, where I don't have to create or be productive. I can just be. And it took even a while in that year, but it's probably the most silence and space I had maybe in my life.

And gradually, but very surely throughout the year, I think I start to understand, I think, what it means to...

Ien Chi (20:25.8)
Like know that my worth is simply from my being and not from doing or achieving. It took a lot to get there. It took a lot of pain, it took a lot of time and I'm still on that journey, but it's probably been in my adult life, the most significant shift in my worldview that has, yeah, it's changed everything. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (20:54.658)
Those of us doing this kind of work, I think we share the common opinion, language, belief that it's so painful to do this kind of work and it's so worth it. And I guess I would just ask whatever you're comfortable with speaking to what that, what you mean by it came with a lot of pain.

Ien Chi (21:10.698)
Mm.

Ien Chi (21:23.58)
Mm-hmm. Well, the first part of it is just that.

Ien Chi (21:32.732)
at the darkest parts of my burnout was just dealing with a lot of anxiety, depression, these kinds of things. But even during the healing process of the year, some of these programs of associating our worth to doing things or achieving things is so deep that it's almost like this.

incredibly heavy train that's been going at a thousand miles an hour. And when you try to stop the momentum of that, it's going to take a lot of time. And so I think for a good nine months, you know, it was me still dealing with this compulsive pattern of thoughts that was automatic. Like I couldn't really do anything about it. This feeling that

I need to be doing something, like I need to be growing a company or doing another project. And underneath that, this terrifying sense of shame that if I don't, I'm not going to be worth anything. And so uprooting, I think the core of that shame is very unpleasant. But like you said, it's the exact same.

illumination and light and consciousness necessary to be with that intimately, without judgment, to be able to, I think, discover that new dimension or paradigm of living where you're not running away anymore. And the relief that comes from this feeling of realizing you don't need to run away from the shame anymore is like, it's so freeing, you know? Very, very freeing.

Kim Rapach (23:32.144)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (23:34.008)
Yeah, and then there'd be very sobering moments, you know, even these days of kind of beholding how much negativity or programming or baggage is in my brain. It's almost like when you kind of clear your lens a bit and you look at how much baggage you have inside of yourself, it's like, oh my gosh, like I have all of this baggage inside of me. It's very humbling.

Ien Chi (24:02.543)
Very humbling.

Kim Rapach (24:03.095)
And I feel like you come to acceptance, right? And you're like, I've had this moment and I accepted that I am dot, dot. And then like, however long later, a week, a month, you're like, wait, there's more? And more, and more?

Ien Chi (24:16.424)
It's like, ah, dammit. Like, ah, I thought I had done this work, you know, and then get a whole new stack in front of you. Yeah. Ha ha ha.

Kim Rapach (24:21.954)
Right, I thought I was done.

Yeah, but that is the constant evolution, right? We don't have to be afraid of it anymore. You get enough layers in the work and you get enough layers and the healing process and you start to realize like, okay, here I am again, it's time to get back. I look at it as invitations.

Ien Chi (24:29.34)
Yeah. Yes.

Ien Chi (24:39.197)
Yes.

Ien Chi (24:43.007)
Yes, yes, invitations.

Yeah, and part of the gift of going through all of this, I realize is also being able to empathize with people in that mentality that it used to be in. I know what it's like to feel that pain. I know what it's like to feel that anxiety. So I feel like the, even though it was painful, yeah, it gave me this.

like a certain amount of depth, I think, that I give my life and my experience in the way I'm able to relate to people.

Ien Chi (25:26.868)
The other humbling thing is that before I perceived life linearly, where I was like, I'm going from A to B, and B is where I want to get to. But now it's not as linear. It's not about getting to B. It's

a day-to-day discernment in presence. And you're at A, and you're just trying to stay at A as best you can and be happy where you are, and then see where that takes you, you know? But it's been humbling because, yeah, it's like, now it's like...

Kim Rapach (26:01.198)
Thanks for watching!

Yeah.

Ien Chi (26:13.06)
you know, I'm never going to get to a place where I have the answers and you know, it's like, I don't know. I don't know where I'm going. Uh, much more.

Kim Rapach (26:21.403)
Right. There's so much available to us that I think we can't even fathom. But it takes this kind of work to not only have, you know, I always think like the universe opens up for us when we're doing our work, but it's not just in the way of, oh, then all the success is going to come. Although I do see a lot more opportunities, a lot more things come to us when we are taking care of ourselves. But it is also met with that.

Ien Chi (26:26.943)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (26:45.555)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (26:48.562)
And I'm grateful right here, right now. If nothing else comes, I have an amazing life and I'm very happy. And I want to go from A to B once I know I'm good with A, but I don't wanna get to B if I have to lose myself. For me, that's what it's about. I will keep going and I will keep chasing my dreams and I will keep growing and whatever, but.

Ien Chi (26:50.98)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (26:56.445)
Yes.

Ien Chi (27:07.953)
Yes.

Kim Rapach (27:16.426)
you know, career wise, but not at the cost of my soul. I won't lose myself again, fingers crossed. That's the work that I do. I won't lose myself for any amount of money or success or, you know, followers, whatever it may be. And I think for me, that's the distinction is A has to be present and mindful and intentional.

Ien Chi (27:20.537)
Mm-hmm.

Ien Chi (27:24.669)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (27:28.436)
Yeah.

Mm.

Ien Chi (27:44.975)
That's such a good way to put it. Nothing is worth the cost of your soul, our soul. Literally nothing. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (27:58.23)
But when you were at the height of your success, how would you describe like how you think people saw you? And how, you know, that imposter syndrome that you referenced, like how do you think people would have described you? And then how would you have actually described yourself if you were allowed to be honest in that season?

Ien Chi (28:08.96)
Mm.

Ien Chi (28:20.584)
Hmm. That's a great question. At the height of my success.

Ien Chi (28:35.22)
I mean, I know I was very insecure and nervous. And I do think people felt that to a certain degree, but it's almost like there's these concentric circles in our lives. I think the closest people in my life probably know a little what's going on, you know? And then, you know, maybe my coworkers here and there might sense something, but you know, I'm in this position of authority, so they probably don't.

feel safe enough to be able to, you know, give me any good feedback. And I wasn't quite secure enough to even ask for that, you know. And then outside on social media, you know, people's perception was probably, whoa, this guy's got to figure it out, you know, or like he's really successful or, you know, really, I don't know, just. At B, I guess, you know.

Ien Chi (29:36.544)
And yeah, and the inside, just like this, you know, constantly trying to figure myself out, like this constant questioning, like why I can't figure it out, you know?

a very, I think for me personally, a very deep, deep preoccupation with what other people thought of me, like my image. Like I wanted to be likable. And that brought a lot of kind of just repressing parts of my true self and anxiety. Yeah, a lot of anxiety for sure. To me, anxiety is this, it's essentially.

your consciousness looped back in on itself. It's so preoccupied with its own, you know, it's just this kind of energy that's trapped inside this box, so to speak, a lot of energy, when it's supposed to go outwards, you know, because when you're not anxious, you're connected, you are present, you're there with people, so you're not thinking about how you look or how you're coming across. But at that time, my entire life,

was folded in on itself, only thinking about myself all the time, right? And that's, it doesn't feel secure to be in that space because, you know, one thing you say might make you look bad. Like your whole life becomes a test where you might get an answer wrong and you're trying to hit a hundred out of a hundred, but that's just impossible to do for any human being. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (31:17.614)
right? Right? You can literally feel the weight of that. So much pressure.

Ien Chi (31:23.696)
Yeah, it was, yeah. I stole that quote from a Kanye interview, by the way, where it was like, oh yeah, if you're trying to do the right thing the whole time, your whole life becomes a test, right? So it's like, yeah, my whole life was a test, like trying to get it right all the time, right? Yeah, that's what it felt like, trying to get it right all the time.

Kim Rapach (31:28.054)
Did you?

Kim Rapach (31:40.37)
Yeah, so I guess that makes me wonder, you know, we focus a lot, you know, in the entertainment industry and the film industry. What do we need to do as a community? Because you're, you know, your experience, your pain.

that anxiety is not unique to you. We're all experiencing it and it's like nobody's talking about it. We're just, you know, we're starting to talk about mental health, but imagine had somebody come alongside you and said, yeah, me too, terrified. Feel like I don't measure up. I'm always trying to hit a hundred out of a hundred and I can't. Like, how do we normalize these conversations? How do we give other people, you know, whenever, I think whenever we...

have some level of healing or something positive in our life we want to spare other people from at least a couple layers of the darkness right how do we how do we as a community open up the conversation there's something we can do that you felt wow if i'd only had that

Ien Chi (32:40.401)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (32:54.0)
Yeah, I think we discussed it last time a bit, but this instantly came to mind that I think we have to be comfortable talking about the imperfection of ourselves. And I think, yeah, especially for those of us who've gone through this transition, continually being open about what we're imperfect, like how we're imperfect, you know, our experiences of that pain.

Um, part of the pressure and the feeling of trying to get it right all the time was maintaining the image, right? Like maintaining the image of just the success or the, you know, constant good vibes all the time. Um, and our industry is inherently tied with, you know, wanting to maintain a good image, like a good brand, so to speak, but

being able to, I think, you know, Shia LaBeouf had a great quote one time where he was like, sincerity and transparency is the new punk rock. And so in the future, I think there's going to be much more kind of like, yeah, people are gonna gravitate much more towards people who are just being real, I think, about the fact that they're a human and able to talk about just things that.

Kim Rapach (34:16.715)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (34:23.652)
are not perfect, you know, because that's just literally what it is. Like we're, there's literally no such thing. That's perfect.

Kim Rapach (34:31.202)
Right.

Kim Rapach (34:35.542)
That is one thing I appreciated about the COVID experience of some celebrities, if you will, or high profile names where they would get on camera and not be made up and without makeup and their hair done and their hair was graying because they hadn't left the house. And I think that really helped social media to bring down that perfection image.

Ien Chi (34:51.08)
Mm.

Ien Chi (35:04.733)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (35:05.998)
I do find it interesting that now there are a million more filters that we can use. But I prefer the other way where people just look real and natural. And if you want to get made up, that's great. But also let's see who we really are. And if we could take that physical idea and also bring that to the emotional space, right? Like...

Ien Chi (35:11.226)
Hmm.

Ien Chi (35:31.709)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (35:32.442)
Now a lot of people are talking more realistically and more honestly about how hard COVID was for them. Right? Even I think a lot of people still just wanted to say, yeah, survive that, it was fine. And now I think it's catching up to us and people are realizing like that was more challenging than maybe we even admitted to ourselves at the time.

Ien Chi (35:39.349)
Hmm.

Ien Chi (35:54.736)
Yeah, yeah, the image that came to my brain of kind of human growth is, there's this perception that it's linear, you know, kind of this like up into the right line of human growth, but my own experience is that there's kind of these cycles of, you know, there's this identity you've created, which is good for a time.

And then after a time it's not useful anymore and it breaks down and you feel in limbo and you feel like you're losing yourself. And then you build up another identity that's a little more nuanced, a little more expanded and fits for this next period of your life. But it's a cycle, I think that will break down too. So it's like, yeah, there's this continual process of I guess like shedding ourselves, you know?

Kim Rapach (36:49.899)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (36:50.568)
losing parts of her identity and there's a grief to that too. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (36:54.826)
Yeah. Do you want, again, goosebumps? Do you want to say more about that? The grief of, well, I think our initial identity comes from our childhood and our experience. And oftentimes, especially people with trauma, but I think all of us to some degree, that identity is formed out of survival, right?

Kim Rapach (37:24.222)
help us survive and much like what you said with human growth, it doesn't serve us anymore. Or it starts causing harm. But when we start to shed those, even those unhealthy parts of ourselves, there's grief. Do you want to talk about that?

Ien Chi (37:31.709)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (37:39.992)
Oh yeah. Well, a lot of times when you shed even an unhealthy part of yourself, it feels like grief because you feel you were so closely attached to that idea as your identity that it feels like you're losing your identity. But in reality, it's just a very deep pattern or attachment that you're losing and it just temporarily feels like this kind of

almost like a shock, I guess, like, oh, like I'm losing this, you know. I mean, just to make it a little more tangible, like in my own life. Trying to think of a specific example of like shedding an old identity. Well, here's an example. You know, ever since I was in middle school, I was a filmmaker, like I was doing videos. And.

There, I did that probably for, I don't know, like a decade and a half maybe. And so this idea that I was a filmmaker doing, and I was a film guy was so ingrained in me because I've been doing it my whole life. And I was joining this new company where it wasn't going to be film anymore, it was gonna be audio, right? And so there was this kind of a...

fear that I might be losing my identity or stepping away from my strengths or whatnot because I'm not doing film anymore. But you know, if you think about it, the core of the storytelling is pretty similar. Like it's, it's the same essence. It's just a different form. But I, but in my brain, I was so attached to this form of being a filmmaker and being known as the filmmaker. It was like, Oh, what am I going to do if like, I'm not doing film anymore. All this life I've built is going down the drain kind of thing.

That's a really simple example, I think, of this identity that I'd built up of who I thought I was. Just changing shape, just evolving. Because all the skills I'd learned up to that time in storytelling through film, it applied just the same to audio, like perfectly. But in my brain, there was a lot of fear, though, stepping into this new arena. There was a fear of the growth of exploring something new because...

Kim Rapach (39:49.134)
Sure.

Ien Chi (40:00.308)
I was holding on to this identity I built up to then, which having the filmmaking dream was like a wrath boat. It took me this far. And I wanted to explore a new territory because I was curious. But once you get to the other side of the river, it's like, you don't wanna drag the boat with you. It's like, no, just go explore. You don't have to take all this stuff that you've...

that has taken you so far. You don't have to take it continually until you die. Like you're allowed to shed parts of yourself so you can explore totally new territories, you know? And I think that has so much to do with the inner work too because once you know that your value comes from just existing as a human being, you're free. Like you can explore whatever you want. Like there's no limit. You can...

You can do finance one day and you can do painting the next and then you can do architecture that it does. Like that's so cool. You can do whatever you want. You know, you shouldn't feel trapped to have to do anything. Like you're good. You know, I don't have to be a filmmaker. Like I can, I can do whatever I want. I don't have to do anything. You know, that's such a, yeah, so much freedom. I think once you start to not.

attach your identity to what you do. It's such a huge shift. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I know many people who've felt that they have to be loyal to their brand of what they've built so far. So they feel they cannot do anything that might displease their audience and things like that. And I think that's something a lot of creators struggle with too, you know? Feeling like they can't be truly

Kim Rapach (41:29.682)
or to what other people think of you.

Kim Rapach (41:49.3)
Yeah.

Yeah, I do too.

Ien Chi (41:54.864)
exploring what they want to because of these expectations.

Ien Chi (42:01.628)
Yeah, it goes back to the grabbing versus creating, I think. Where it's, yeah, you always want to be coming from a place where you're doing exactly what you want to do and explore exactly what you want to explore. Or else you might become beholden to, I don't know, probably other people's expectations and things like this, which is probably a slippery slope.

Kim Rapach (42:16.244)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (42:25.006)
sure.

Kim Rapach (42:32.638)
So when we talked last, you were on your last day of your sabbatical. What are you up to? How's it going?

Ien Chi (42:37.174)
Oh yeah.

Ien Chi (42:43.812)
It's going amazing, actually. I.

Ien Chi (42:51.3)
Every day I'll get up and I have this to-do list of things I want to do. Um, and there's in particular two projects, which I'll kind of keep on the low down, but one is a book and one is a film, but I feel very close to these and I really want to make these. Um, it's something I would go out of my wake to pay to make, which is how I know it speaks to me and what I started doing. And this is very recent.

actually, just in the past week, I started carving out my mornings to focus just on those and what I want to work on. And then anything like errands or emails or other work that is not directly those projects I'll do in the afternoon. And the reason I said it that way is because I started to realize there's this part of me that wants to get back to people.

you know, that wants to make sure that, you know, I'm looking at this contract, so I'll get paid and all that kind of stuff. But I realized if I keep doing this stuff first. And I keep doing the work I want to do later in the day, you know, I keep telling myself like, ah, like, you know, I'm too tired to do this right now or whatnot. I realized I have to. Make my own work the first priority above all these other errands and things that I seemingly have to do, but like.

This is the soul nurturing creation that is just for me. I realize I need to be intentional, as you say. Such a great word. I need to be intentional to make this the first priority and everything else is secondary. So this is the latest iteration in my schedule day to day of what I'm doing. But to answer your question, yeah, one is a book of all these.

compilation of writings I've done about kind of realizations and epiphanies I've had of how to live a peaceful life. And then the second one is a potential documentary about this amazing intentional living community where it's just an amazing case study example of people that have gotten together to create a lifestyle that is so deeply nourishing of the soul together. And I think we've forgotten how to live in this tribal village together kind of mentality. And I

Ien Chi (45:17.672)
this film would be a great example for people of like, just, hey, it's possible to live in community today, like a modern day village. Like, let me show you an example of with these people. So those are the two projects. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (45:32.003)
I love that. I have friends we fantasize about building a village and you know having a place where you know not only are we serving but we're also nourishing ourselves and each other first and living in community and I think that's beautiful. I'm excited.

Ien Chi (45:37.308)
Yes.

Ien Chi (45:44.789)
Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that's one thing I'm realizing more and more. I think that you cannot truly have deeply fulfilling soulful life. Or it's much harder to do that without community. Like you really need community, I think. And even this, being able to talk like this and being able to share it with others, I think for people walking the path and doing the work, like connecting with others.

who are talking about it, it really solidifies, gives you confidence that it's okay to be able to explore these new things and there is another way of doing it. Like, yeah, connection is so important.

Kim Rapach (46:36.51)
Yeah, I'm really hoping that this, you know, just grows as a, as a community of sorts of just where people can share their stories, hear other people's stories of, you know, just hear each other's stories of going from adversity to joy, authentic joy, peace, you know, not hustling for our worth, having that radical self acceptance because it really is.

Ien Chi (46:55.36)
Mm.

Kim Rapach (47:04.242)
In my opinion, it's the only way you cannot shame or condemn yourself into growth or positive change.

Ien Chi (47:13.694)
Yeah, oh, that's great. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (47:15.882)
and all the messages tell us otherwise, but it's not true. It's like, just work harder, you know? And I think that mentality is just lose yourself a little bit more. And so it doesn't work. It doesn't work, but radical self-acceptance does.

Ien Chi (47:29.02)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (47:34.885)
Mm.

Kim Rapach (47:37.874)
It does. I loved, will you share the opening line of your TED talk? You hooked me right from the beginning.

Ien Chi (47:45.324)
I think I said, yeah, as soon as I got on stage today, I want to talk with you about how I learned, like how I hate myself and like how I love myself for hating myself or something like that.

Kim Rapach (47:58.995)
Yeah, I tell you how I've come to love the fact that I hate myself.

Ien Chi (48:03.684)
Yes, yeah.

Kim Rapach (48:07.294)
That was great. That was great. It was a really good TED talk. I hope I hope our listeners will check it out. You know, what would you say, Ian, to I mean, you've experienced your own level of darkness, as have I. What would you say to someone who may be listening, you know, whether or not they're creative, but if they're feeling that darkness, they're questioning what the point of it all is, it's existential crisis. If they're just sitting there listening like, well,

That's great. I'm glad you're doing well, but I don't even know where to start. What might you say?

Ien Chi (48:46.177)
The thought that came to my mind is, it's totally okay to be feeling that way. And it probably makes a lot of sense actually that you're feeling that way. And...

Ien Chi (49:12.229)
It's.

It's a sign that you're tuned in to this inner compass that is telling you maybe there's a different way of doing things. And.

the first step maybe is like, yeah, it's like totally okay to feel the way you're feeling and to be, because I used to beat myself up all the time, like, why am I being so negative and things like this? But there's a really good reason that those things are coming up and it's totally okay to be felt.

So just like easing any of the pressure of this self judgment of feeling anyway, like it's totally, it's totally, it's totally, it's okay. And it totally makes sense that you feel the way you feel. And then for me and my personal journey, um, I just had this sense that I need to rest. Like I just need space and time. And so for anyone who shares the feeling I had of

this inkling that maybe I need some space, maybe I need some time.

Ien Chi (50:29.944)
I would be like, yeah, that's a good idea. Like maybe it's worth exploring, you know, whatever that looks like, whether it's like just even five minutes of writing down something you're grateful for or going for a walk or, you know. I, you know, I don't know many people who've taken a whole year sabbatical, but like I'm so glad I gave my permission, myself permission to do that. And I will affirm.

10,000 times, it's probably the best decision I made in my life. So there's a reason our intuition speaks to us. And I would say it's good to listen to that and be okay feeling whatever you feel.

Kim Rapach (51:13.25)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (51:17.514)
Well, and I think both of the things that you spoke to Ian are, you know, they're in our, they're in our space. They're in our social media feeds. They're on billboards, like the opposite of what you're saying.

Right? When you're saying it's normal to feel that way, it probably makes a lot of sense why you feel that way. It's probably really valid and it's normal and you're human and me too. Whereas everything we see is turn it off, buy something, drink something, inject something, you know, ingest something, you know? And it's like, what if we just allowed ourselves to go through all of the human emotions which are completely normal?

Ien Chi (51:52.005)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (51:59.83)
We've been conditioned to think, if you're having a bad feeling, there's something wrong and we need to turn that off right now. But as you know, especially as a creative, sometimes those darker spaces is where the truth comes out, where beauty comes from, where healing comes from. And I just can't help but think of the messages that we're bombarded with that are actually opposite of what we need to hear.

Ien Chi (52:00.177)
Hmm

Ien Chi (52:06.533)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (52:26.764)
Yeah, we live in a sedating society, I think.

Kim Rapach (52:36.286)
And ironic, right? Because when you, the second thing you spoke about was rest. And we are conditioned, push through, hustle. You can sleep when you're dead. Somebody's out working you. Some, you know, you're resting and someone else is in the gym and, you know, all these wild messages like, I'm not enough. It's like, no, just take a nap. You'll be fine.

Ien Chi (52:56.894)
Just take a nap.

Kim Rapach (52:59.198)
have a snack and a nap and that's Reassess.

Ien Chi (53:00.096)
Thanks for watching!

Ah, that's really good advice. Have a snack, have a nap and let's reassess. Yeah, that's a good three-step process to like just have a snack, take a nap, reassess. Outside, yeah. Man, any opportunity where one can create space, like mental space, I think is...

Kim Rapach (53:07.573)
It's so simple.

Kim Rapach (53:12.078)
All right. Yep.

And if you can step outside. I always say step outside.

Ien Chi (53:32.316)
can only be a good thing. Yeah, that is really where it all begins, I think, being able to listen to yourself. I'm still honing in on my daily kind of routine and how I, you know, the way I use social media and things like that, but, you know, I started not, I made a rule for myself, no social media except Sundays.

Kim Rapach (53:34.419)
Yeah, for sure.

Ien Chi (54:01.476)
You know that ex but then even Sundays, that's my rest day. You know, so I don't want to be scrolling on social media. So it's a good way to only go on there for exactly what I want. But my gosh, the wonders it's done for my mental health. And every time I do go on social media now. It's like it's like so icky. It's like, oh, my gosh, this thing is like designed to just fog your brain and.

Kim Rapach (54:01.751)
Wow.

Kim Rapach (54:08.162)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (54:31.816)
I used to live in that fog, you know what I mean? Like I used to live there. It's kind of crazy. Yeah, the answers are out there. Gotta find it, you know, gotta improve yourself and find it, right? But it's just crazy. Like, especially after my sabbatical, like I'm just like, on the other side of it, I'm just like, we live in an insane world.

Kim Rapach (54:34.474)
Right, same. Because the answers were out there somewhere. So we thought.

Yeah, yeah. Get that next dopamine hit. Yeah.

Ien Chi (55:00.572)
Like it is a crazy, like mad, mad world. I'm like, this is, this is not conducive to mental health. The way people are living, it is not conducive to mental health.

Kim Rapach (55:11.851)
Right. Well, and I'll admit there's a part of me that used to think with over consumption of social media or whatnot, even television, that it's, think of all the things you could be doing, but not in a productive way, but think of all the things you could be doing.

to improve your health or your mental health because those are the things that have an impact on your kids and your siblings and your parents and anybody who's important to your partner, you know? And so not like all the things you could be doing, like cleaning your sock drawer or starting a new business, but what could you be creating? Even if that creating is like a safe home that changes generational trauma.

Ien Chi (56:02.052)
Mmm. Oh yeah.

Kim Rapach (56:02.67)
These things matter so deeply where we think it's like, we started with, we think it's external and it's outside of us. And we have to bring things in to create the space we desire. When in fact, it's already in us what we desire, but we have to make that space. We have to be intentional to create what we truly desire and the impact we truly wanna have from a place of authenticity.

Ien Chi (56:15.582)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (56:32.38)
Such a great word. Intentional. Yeah. Intentional. You know, the other shift that's happened in my brain before and after this paradigm shift as a lot of times in my previous life, I would be, well, let's see what happens. You know, like, you know, hopefully this thing does well and it'll lead to the next opportunity. And let's see what happens. Let's see what happens. Now.

Ien Chi (57:02.697)
I'm gonna I'm gonna create what I want and I'm gonna do it exactly the way I want and I'm gonna find some way to make it what I want because

Ien Chi (57:15.1)
If I wait to see what happens, like, I am totally giving my power away to outside forces that I cannot control. And what I can control is this infinitely amazing imagination and consciousness where I can choose to look at anything through any lens. You know, it's crazy. Like, I just think about how some people are so terrified of public speaking, whereas other people love it and have this performance energy.

Kim Rapach (57:24.524)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (57:45.02)
It's like, I can choose to tap into either one. Like I could choose to be terrified or I can choose to be stoked and I'm talking to whoever. And I can apply this principle anywhere in my life. I can create whatever I want. And that has been so empowering because now it's like, well, why would I wanna go to point B if I have exactly what I wanna create within me and I can create this amazing point A, this whatever the way I want. Like I don't wanna go anywhere, you know?

Kim Rapach (58:15.275)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (58:16.67)
I don't wanna take this job that's gonna apparently pay me a lot but lose my, like why? Which doesn't make any sense. It's crazy though, it's like I had no idea.

Kim Rapach (58:23.73)
Yeah. And when you're not self-attuned, you keep going, right? You keep going first, you get to be like, Okay, well, that's really not what I thought it was. So let me go, let me try C, right? And it just keeps going. You get all the way to Z. And then I don't know about you. But when you were at the top of the tree, weren't you just a little pissed? Like, wait a minute, I did everything they told me to do. This sucks. This isn't what they

Ien Chi (58:36.897)
Yeah. All the way to Z.

Ien Chi (58:47.199)
Yeah.

Ien Chi (58:50.816)
It's like, what the hell is this? Yeah, it's like someone gives you a giant package and you open it and inside is just a huge mound of doo-doo. Ha ha ha. It's like, what is this? What is this? I'd rather make my own presents. I'm gonna give myself, I'm gonna make my own presents. Ha ha ha. Don't stop taking these presents from these other people. Ha ha ha. Uh.

Kim Rapach (58:52.046)
This isn't what I thought it was gonna be.

Kim Rapach (59:01.091)
You're right.

Kim Rapach (59:05.322)
Right?

Kim Rapach (59:10.156)
Right?

Kim Rapach (59:18.773)
That's so funny. So true. You already kind of mentioned it but I was going to ask if you had any like what you do to maintain your mental wellness. I know you create space for your creativity and you make that your non negotiable which I love. Is there anything else that you do?

on a regular basis that's a non-negotiable, you mentioned social media limiting anything else?

Ien Chi (59:46.248)
Well, I just have a list of things I don't even entertain. So, like I made a list of things that I know if I start touching this, it's just gonna lead down a rabbit hole. So another one is like YouTube. So I also won't watch any digital media videos unless it's like for work or, you know, someone sent me something as a reference for something else. But otherwise I just know I tend to slip down this rabbit hole of YouTube videos. So I also...

Kim Rapach (01:00:00.793)
Mmm.

Ien Chi (01:00:15.74)
I won't do that except Sundays if I really want to watch something. It forces me to be very intentional. And some variety of other things as well, like junk food, for example. Yeah, social media.

and then sleep, sleep as well. It's like I'm trying to be more intentional about not staying up too late and getting up at regular hours. So it's actually very basic and simple if you think about it. Like these are all very, going back to basic things, but those basic things are kind of the foundation that everything else is built on. So I realize how important it is. But if there's something that...

listeners, you know, if there's something that is like this temptation with a slippery slope, you know, could be social media, could be junk food. It's good to make rules around those, I think. Yeah, very helpful. It's helped me a lot.

Kim Rapach (01:01:17.182)
Yeah, yeah.

Thank you. I have a list on my phone called the damn thing. As in just do the damn thing. Those are my non-negotiable. But they are, they're very simple. It's, you know, do your workout, get your steps, drink your water and do your morning routine, which is my journaling. And then I have a whole bunch of other things that I kind of play a game with myself. Like I don't have to do all those because I don't.

Ien Chi (01:01:24.2)
Hmm. Oh, I see. I love it.

Ien Chi (01:01:38.958)
Hmmm

Kim Rapach (01:01:46.554)
my slippery slope is I'm gonna do all the things, right? And I'm gonna be perfect at it. So I only have those four non-negotiables and even I look at those as 85, 90% is consistent. Never perfection. But I have a list of other things that are on there too that like, I know if I hit the more of those that I hit in a day, the better I feel. So I'm not mad if I don't hit them, but it's just this constant like, okay, maybe I could.

Ien Chi (01:01:50.468)
Mmm.

Ien Chi (01:02:11.199)
Mmm.

Kim Rapach (01:02:16.298)
you know, do this, you know, this stretch really makes me feel amazing. I don't have to do it. I'm not broken. I'm not injured, but when I do, it even helps me feel even better. And so I have a list of those and it might be essential oils or, you know, snuggle the dogs, but that comes naturally anyway. There's never a day I'm not snuggling dogs, but

Ien Chi (01:02:28.488)
That's so good.

I might.

Ien Chi (01:02:36.968)
Man, that's a great, it's almost the opposite of what I have of the, mine's like a not, don't touch list and yours is like the damn thing list. But that, I might steal that and try that out because there are things in my life, I know if I do it, it will make me feel better. You know, like one is like the Wim Hof breathing exercise. It's like, I'm lazy, I don't wanna do it. But after I do it, I feel so refreshed and so great every time. But.

Kim Rapach (01:02:45.76)
It's

Kim Rapach (01:03:03.198)
Right, right.

Ien Chi (01:03:04.36)
Before I do it, I'm like, I don't want to do this, but it's like, if I put that on the damn list, that'd be great. That'd be so good. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (01:03:10.442)
Yeah. Yeah, that's fun. Well, Ian, thank you so much. I know you have your Ted talk, and I'm just wondering if people want to find you, where else can they find you?

Ien Chi (01:03:24.9)
Yeah, you can find me at Nourish, I guess. Yeah, yeah, so the website is nourish.art and that's kind of the work that my friends and I do. Soul nourishing storytelling. And it's very much aligned, I think, with this new phase of my life of trying to make really healing work for people.

Kim Rapach (01:03:31.786)
at Nourish.

Ien Chi (01:03:54.248)
and I think it would speak to this audience. Yeah, otherwise, yeah, you can reach out to me on Instagram. Ian, Ian the Korean is my handle. I-E-N the Korean, yeah. Hi.

Kim Rapach (01:04:03.53)
I like it. Awesome. Very, very, very happy that you're here. I'm very grateful. I always enjoy talking to you. I look forward to just staying connected and keeping in touch. Probably off of social media. We'll just keep in touch here.

Ien Chi (01:04:21.304)
Yeah, this is, this I, thank you so much for, yeah, I just, these conversations are, yeah, so important, so healing. And yeah, appreciate, just, yeah, allowing me to share my own experience, which.

It's crazy just by being oneself, we can be of so much help, right? And you're doing the same and we're doing it together. It's, it's a beautiful thing. So I appreciate you creating this space intentionally. That can be shared with other souls as well.

Kim Rapach (01:04:56.694)
Thank you. Well, you are definitely a warrior and I'm grateful that you're willing to share your story and just keep doing the work because I think that's what matters most. It's how we make the greatest impact. So thank you again. And I'm glad we met and I'm glad we get to keep the conversation going.

Ien Chi (01:05:10.452)
Mm. Truly.

Ien Chi (01:05:16.336)
Amen. Likewise, onward and upward.

Kim Rapach (01:05:19.97)

Ien Chi (01:05:24.609)