The Work of Warriors

Jodi Wellman (00:00.425)
Thank you.

Kim Rapach (00:02.818)
Hi Jody, welcome to the work of warriors. I'm so glad you're here.

Jodi Wellman (00:07.569)
Oh, thank you for having me. I'm excited to dive in and chat with you.

Kim Rapach (00:11.63)
Awesome. So, you know, as you know, the work of warriors is a podcast dedicated to bringing mental wellness to the entertainment industry. And I just believe there's this notion, no matter what we're doing, if we if we have big goals, if we're doing big things, sometimes it's hard to know when to stop. And so a lot of people, a lot of my clients come to me because they are.

living big, their careers are big, they're burned out, they're frustrated. But what I was fascinated by when I found you and your content is I think we're coming at this from almost opposite directions, but we are really trying to lead people to the same place, which is to live this life of.

Jodi Wellman (00:41.642)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (00:58.094)
joy and excitement and satisfaction and contentment. And that looks different for everybody. But I love what you're doing with 4,000 Mondays. And I would just love it if you would introduce 4,000 Mondays and a bit of yourself to our listeners so everybody listening knows exactly what you're doing because it's amazing. I'm so glad you're here.

Jodi Wellman (01:18.557)
Exactly. And then we love it. And we can piece together how your point, I love how you positioned it as we're coming at it from opposite ends. Let's talk. Well, you've alluded to 4000 Mondays and I will, you know, break any mystique there. What is that about? It is that we roughly get 4000 weeks on the planet, I guess, depending what you believe. And so I call it 4000 Mondays because of course, Mondays just have way more feelings. And that is a good litmus test for us to determine.

When I wake up on a Monday, am I feeling raring to go for this week of my life or am I feeling like I wanna stay in bed or some variation of the two? And so I work with mostly at this point, groups and teams, I do keynotes and workshops to talk about how many Mondays do you have left and how then therefore do you wanna make the most of that unfortunately diminishing amount of time. And I used to do a ton of one-on-one coaching, I do still do a tiny little bit of it.

and I'm writing, my book is coming out in the spring, and I'm just, you know, trying to love my own life while I'm fitting in, hoping other people make the most of their time too.

Kim Rapach (02:25.642)
I love that so much. Would you be willing to share a bit of how you got here? How did you come to this? You know, I know I've seen your Ted Talk. I encourage all of our listeners to go watch it. It's fantastic. And I know when people hear death, you know, only so many Mondays, only so many weeks, and it's scary, but you make it so fun and so realistic. And you bring so much hope to the life that we have. So.

Can you just share a little bit of how did you get here? How did this come to you? How did you get here?

Jodi Wellman (02:59.621)
Yeah, okay, happy to, yeah, I can put it in context because I do agree with you that most people would immediately think, great, thanks Kim, the show about death, how fast can I press the back button on this podcast? But wait, there's more, there's so much, it gets better. So I was working corporately for 17 years in executive roles and life was good and great and you know, kind of until it wasn't and I was looking for something new and different. And for me, that meant

getting into executive coaching and leadership development. And do you ever have a time where you do something and it's a good move? And so for that, for me, you know, it's been 10 years since I left my corporate roles. It has been definitely a positive move, but there was something that was niggling on the back of my mind. And it was almost, it became a louder and louder voice. And it was this interest in our mortality.

And because I've always been interested in this bizarre notion, you know, that here we are, we're all just trying to make the most of this one life and we're all careening towards an inevitable end. I mean, I don't know, I fortunately find that amusing rather than morbid because it's just, it's ridiculous. And so I went to grad school at the University of Pennsylvania and I took the masters of applied positive psychology program. Most people are like positive psychology, say what? And it's the scientific study of what makes life worth living. And in doing that,

That cracked me wide open where I said, I'm going to do my thesis on this topic of mortality as a motivator. And I realized, oh my gosh, there's a whole bevy of information and research and existing stuff out there on this idea called temporal scarcity, which is how we see things that are rare or temporary as, you know, having a higher value. So that's what our lives really are, you know, limited time only situations. So by studying it,

And to be honest, I think I needed it to be that kind of validated. It gave me the permission that I felt I needed in my mind to just make the change. And so I started 4,000 Mondays three years ago and have shifted. So I still do leadership development and coaching just because I love it. But it's now very much 4,000 Mondays all day, all night long, every freaking Monday, every week, till my bitter end because I'm just so motivated to help us seize the day, you know, seize the Mondays until we...

Jodi Wellman (05:23.997)
realize that, oh man, like they're gonna come to an end. So let's just stuff it full of joy and meaning. Cause I think that, well, we'll talk in a minute, maybe about, you know, the different continuums and ways we can look at life.

Kim Rapach (05:38.93)
Yeah, well, first of all, when I hear you, I'm like, I don't think your ending's going to be bitter. The bitter ending, like you bring so much joy. I don't think it'll be bitter. I took the quiz on your website. You are, you're showing the rest of us how to do it, right? I took the quiz on your website and I think I scored well. I think I'm living pretty good. So that was very exciting.

Jodi Wellman (05:45.583)
I quit.

Jodi Wellman (05:50.313)
That would be the best death party ever.

Jodi Wellman (05:56.865)
Yeah.

Jodi Wellman (06:01.147)
Ooh!

Kim Rapach (06:04.31)
But I just want our listeners to understand that they're really, you have an assessment tool on how to know where people are at in that test, right? Like, are you living? Are you just scrolling through life? Are you just getting by? And so I think anybody who spends a minute with you or even on your social media can feel the energy that you bring. And I guess a question that I have is, how do you know...

Jodi Wellman (06:04.42)
Oh, dynamo.

Jodi Wellman (06:18.549)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (06:34.174)
if someone is living, right? Because again, I have clients who are living so big, but they're still not, it's not meaningful, or they've lost their original meaning to life. How do you assess that?

Jodi Wellman (06:46.505)
Yeah. This is such a good question because this comes up in a lot of different ways, whether it's in a workshop I'm doing or not, because I do believe there is this notion that there's a prescribed way of living well, you know, and I immediately slam on the brakes because I do talk a lot about what I call living an astonishing life, which sounds like that's the category that you're in from the quiz you took. Rock on.

Kim Rapach (07:13.453)
Yeah.

Jodi Wellman (07:13.985)
And yet it's not like if you do these nine things and you're not doing these 12 other things, therefore you're not living in an astonishing life and sucks to be you, you're in the dead zone. So, you know, might as well just like bury yourself alive. That it is entirely relative. So one of the things that I've found most fascinating even in studying positive psychology, not even so much the mortality part of it that I love, but the...

subjective life satisfaction scales, is that we all have an innate knowing of how we're doing. And we just need to be given sometimes just a few questions or even the good old like scale of one to 10 situation to know. And so your entertainment clients, they're living larger than the rest of us mere mortals. And so for them, they may be living a life that other people are thinking, oh, if I could just get 10 minutes of it. But again, it is just entirely relative, right? So someone-

that I will meet will say, I really just like a quiet, lovely life. I want it to be peaceful and zen, and I just like my simple pleasures. And then if they're getting enough simple pleasures and they're getting enough zen and peace and all the things they deem to be a good life for them, then they're like a nine or 10 out of 10 on their life. And that might make your Hollywood client think, oh, poor you, honey bunny, like living your quiet life in the woods. Although maybe they fantasize about that too, I think. But...

What is it what you want and need is different from what someone else does. So I don't outwardly assess by judgment. I get people describing for themselves. Am I living with enough fun? Am I living with enough purpose? And a bunch of questions in and around those two continuums. And that's what gets people thinking, huh, this part might be okay, but this part might be a little flatlined and what do I wanna do about it? So I hope I've stressed the point that it is very much about your version's different than mine that's different from.

You know, Tom Cruise.

Kim Rapach (09:12.134)
Oh gosh, I think that's probably one of the most important things that you could have said, because the next question I had was, where do you find in your research and your work with all these clients and teams and whatnot? Where are people getting their assessment without your questions? Where do you think the general population gets the definition of what is a great life?

Jodi Wellman (09:16.948)
Okay.

Jodi Wellman (09:29.986)
Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Jodi Wellman (09:36.537)
Oh gosh, it's scary dark answer, right? I think it's scarier than death. I think it's social media, right? It's comparison, compare and despair. I think that we size ourselves up, our lot in life. We could be having a just fine day and then we see someone else doing something that we might long to be doing or driving a car that we might've once thought. And all of a sudden now the thing we had wasn't so good or we were already feeling super crap to begin with and now we just were dug down seven layers deeper. So I think that...

The norms, and I don't mean to totally rain on social media, it's pretty much pervasive, it's around us, right? If you live in a society, you are being inculcated into it and this is what is supposed to be a good life and this is what is not. And usually there are some metrics around the good life, including some travel, some fun experiences.

Usually there is an acceptance of social relationships. That's more of an Eastern expectation that you're just gonna be in a tribe of your people. But there are, even if you're working in a workplace, even if it's remote, you're going to be accepting those signals about what is good or not. What does your boss do on his or her vacation? That's setting the norm about, oh, this is how we spend our time. This is what makes a good.

Oh, is somebody going out and yachting this weekend? Well, I guess that's what I should be yearning for. So left to our own devices, I think we could do just fine. But if we just unfortunately don't live alone, or, you know, fortunately we don't live alone.

Kim Rapach (11:12.194)
Right? Do you have a practice that you go through if you're, because like you said, we're human, we all do it, we all have this comparison trap. Do you have a practice that you might go through if you catch yourself in there like, oh, I should have a yacht, or the trip to Hawaii wasn't good enough, I should be going to Bali. If you catch yourself there, what do you do that other people might be able to incorporate?

Jodi Wellman (11:26.913)
I'm sorry.

Jodi Wellman (11:33.637)
Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I do. What comes to mind are three specific things. So one is just simply like avoid the stimulus that is causing pain. And so I'll stop scrolling. You know, if for some reason, or I, for me, it's not so much in social media because I've learned to really love Instagram. I, and I'm the...

kind of pretty much all the only place I am. Oh, I'm a LinkedIn too. But okay, so LinkedIn is a good example because there are other professionals. And I see people that I already know and like, and then I'm like, oh, you're doing that thing, or you're speaking at that event, and I get the little feelings going on. And you know, if I was super mature and evolved, I would just have a more therapeutic moment with myself. But my first answer is, I'm gonna stop scrolling. I don't need to fill my head with more feelings of inadequacy. And so just number one, eliminate that thing. So that's just...

Easy peasy. Now, the next step is slightly more evolved and a little bit more of the, you know, foundations of stop and practice gratitude. Like it is a fascinating reflex we can initiate, which is just looking around and finding something. I'm grateful that, you know, X, Y, Z, and it could be filling in something silly, right? I'm grateful that we're ordering Thai food on Friday, and that's something to look forward to and it's fun, or I'm grateful that I have, I'm happy, I'm healthy.

I have a family, most of whom care about me, and things are pretty good. So number one, just any sprinkling of gratitude will change your perception of life in that moment. And then number three is where I'm gonna just always like flash the lights, memento mori, which is remembering we're gonna die. Stop and say, in the grand fricking scheme of things, she got that speaking gig and I didn't, or her hair looks way better than mine ever will. And you know what? I'm alive. Like,

Maybe I have some years to figure out how to do my hair, or maybe I have some years to figure it, but I get to be here, you know? And it helps to size the problem beautifully in that moment of like, let's not sweat the small stuff, because so many people I've worked with who've had those brushes with death, they don't care about the trivial stuff as much. And so I try to put myself back in that mindset that I've never been fortunate enough to have, a precipice with death moment. I don't want one, but I know it would be lovely after I try and put myself in that mindset.

Kim Rapach (13:52.37)
Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And the two, the second two that you mentioned, practicing gratitude, and then that just spills into I'm so grateful I get to be here. And it seems cliche, but it really is true. Like, if you woke up today, you have so much to be grateful for and we lose sight of that with what you've talked about with social media, other people impacted our opinions and, you know, how we rate ourselves, if you will. So I think that that's so powerful.

And I know that you said you haven't had one of those big experiences, but you've had some experiences of not living how you live now. And I'm wondering if you'd be willing to share a little bit of that.

Jodi Wellman (14:34.647)
Mm-hmm.

Jodi Wellman (14:38.833)
I'm happy to, yeah, anything that can help jostle someone else and help someone else see like normalize all of the like the cacophony of crap that as humans we go through. You know, I can have it as...

Kim Rapach (14:48.83)
Yes, yes, because it is, I'm sorry to interrupt you, I just, I think that is the human experience. And there are so many people walking around thinking it's personal, thinking they have bad luck, thinking they're cursed, and that if they just do that thing, that's a lot of the space that I work in, if I just win that award, if I get on that stage, if I get that gig, if I get the label.

Jodi Wellman (15:06.674)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Rapach (15:14.194)
whatever, then I won't have that human experience. And it doesn't go away. And I just think we need to talk about that.

Jodi Wellman (15:17.49)
Yes. No, it doesn't. Yes. Well, what you just described is what they say in psychological science is called destination addiction. It's that idea that my happiness resides elsewhere and it's contingent upon, again, that thing happening, the Emmy or the home or that really, you know, the boyfriend that looks like this or whatever.

I think we delude ourselves really quite brilliantly, don't we, and actually believing it. I mean, I think most of us in a salient moment would stop and say, okay, I kind of really know that there might be some chinks in the armor. Like the morning I wake up after the Oscar, in addition to feeling hung over, my life is, well, actually, I can understand how life can change because of things, but it's not the antidote. So we might rationally know it, but we do a good job of trying to convince ourselves of that. And that is...

Kim Rapach (16:01.643)
Sure.

Kim Rapach (16:08.898)
Yeah.

Jodi Wellman (16:10.417)
Therein lies the risk. There's this concept called hedonic adaptation. Again, back to psychology. And it's that we adapt just so reliably to all of the great things that happen to us. And the good news is that we adapt to the crappy things too. So the situations we might find ourselves in, there's research around if you become a paraplegic or if you win the lottery. Pretty much like 18 months later, both parties are just about as...

happy or miserable as they were before their life-changing event. So yeah, there's destination to addiction's a thing. And back to your question, I didn't live the full width and depth of my life for a lot of time. One part was the easy peasy thing, which most of us have been through, which is that I was in a job that I didn't love and I felt stuck. Well, that, you know, but that does take courage.

Kim Rapach (16:42.114)
Sure.

Jodi Wellman (17:08.981)
to get out of that situation and to see that it's okay to start over and that it is always worth it. There's not been a single client I've worked with who has made the big gutsy change, even maybe gone back to school or ooh, even lost their status and started off at the low point on the totem pole and regretted it. Everybody that I've worked with or personally known just wishes they did it sooner. So for me, there was the job. And then I suffered from eating disorders.

a decade. And man I look back now and I think about how I know I is doing it now. You know I was just trying to cope. I like things just so and control the need and disorders create that feeling that things are in control in many ways. So it satisfied a need in one way and it was just it's just a sad time when I recognized that I wasn't going out because I was preferring to stay home and binge and purge.

Or I knew that I had, there were other opportunities I could go for. I could play full out, but this was just a, it was a compulsion. It was a trap. And so I know when I compare this to all the other people out there who have our own versions of those trials and tribulations, you know, it could be that the ways we try to cope were clever, you know, it might just be like just the shopping addiction.

Like I know how good it feels to just press that add to cart. It could be a little bit more drinking than you maybe, well, know is good for you. And then all of a sudden, that might escalate a little bit. I know a lot of people with some gambling issues, sex addiction, ways that we just try to fill. We often try to fill the void of meaninglessness. And that's a big thing that I write.

Kim Rapach (19:00.726)
Yes, say more, say more.

Jodi Wellman (19:04.961)
there's this concept that I've fallen for called the existential vacuum. And yes, you can believe I did draw a vacuum cleaner because it needed to be drawn. And to doodle alongside an article I wrote on this, but it's this idea that for many of us, we don't necessarily know it, but we are lacking meaning. This goes back to something you said at the beginning of our chat, where a lot of your successful entertainment clients, they have a lot of vitality in their lives, right? So they're living wide.

all sorts of pleasure and experiences and travels in front of the plane, if not their own plane, and just all the cool, fun, joys, and the things that we see on social media typically, right? They've got a lot of that, but the dearth can come in the spectrum of meaning and purpose. And so this existential vacuum highlights where we don't have that sense of meaning and purpose in our lives. And...

there is a phenomenon that can exist where, when we're left with open periods of time, so for many of us who work like a typical Monday to Friday, the weekend can sometimes feel full of anxiety because we're all of a sudden faced with this 48-hour runway of, I don't really have much to do unless I'm working, and I don't have any other real purpose, and even my work may or may not be making me feel like I'm adding any kind of meaning or making a dent in the world or whatever, but...

back to again, your main clientele, there are gaps between jobs, right? So I've worked with people in your field too, where it's like, you're hopping from one significant thing to the next, but there could just be this like tumbleweed blowing through your life for a couple months. And that you're staring down this void of, what am I doing? Like, surely there's more, what am I here for? What am I really contributing? And those are big questions, of course.

and they deserve to be analyzed and answered, but that can be really existentially rocking to us. It really does rock our world. It's one of the existential threats they call them, of which there are a bunch. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (21:13.386)
Yeah. And I think, you know, when you said we trick ourselves brilliantly and, you know, you were talking about some of the common struggles that people have, whether it's, you know, a sex addiction or shopping. And I think it's insidious too, you know, when you run to Target and you come home with a bunch of plastic crap and you're like...

oh, this is going to, you know, goodwill, or it's going in the trash, or, you know, like, I'm just gonna sit on the couch for a minute, I just need a break, and then it's three hours later, and I just think, like, sometimes we're sleeping, and one thing that I try to tell myself is, you know, especially with purchasing, and to, you know, to not try to fill those, you know, meaningless, seemingly meaningless moments, is it either needs to feed me well, or change my life for the better.

Jodi Wellman (21:38.157)
Yeah.

Jodi Wellman (21:44.157)
Yeah.

Jodi Wellman (22:03.281)
Ooh, he either needs to feed me now or change my life. Well, okay. I mean, in moderation, but yeah.

Kim Rapach (22:06.414)
Feed me well. Yeah, so like not Oreos. But like, right, right. But not like, you know, spending extra money at the farmer's market feels wise. But grabbing, you know, the Doritos, the Oreos, the soda, the excess of in hopes, and you know, it's subconscious hope that it's going to make us feel better or picking up those $1 items that are.

Jodi Wellman (22:19.753)
Hmm...

Jodi Wellman (22:25.457)
Yeah. Yep.

Kim Rapach (22:34.618)
actually like four and five dollars. But it's from those little things to the grandiose things of, I have to have a better car, a bigger house, or a better job, whatever it might be. I'm just wondering, do you have anything to offer our listeners in regards to-

Jodi Wellman (22:37.253)
Yes!

Jodi Wellman (22:49.161)
Mm-hmm.

Jodi Wellman (22:55.969)
Hmm.

Kim Rapach (22:59.15)
How do you know, how do you connect with your worth? Because as a mental wellness coach and you work in psychology, like I get into the story, I get into the personality, I get into trauma and lots of untethering and unhooking. But for people who have done that work or aren't ready to do that work, what it might be, but how do you just accept the fact that you are worthy of a life that you decide

Jodi Wellman (23:02.601)
Yeah.

Jodi Wellman (23:12.746)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jodi Wellman (23:25.014)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Kim Rapach (23:27.454)
what it means that you get to define what it means to be successful. How do you how do I know that I'm worth that?

Jodi Wellman (23:30.581)
Hmm. I love the way.

Yes, that's so rich. A couple of things come to my mind off the top. And one, you know, going back to those inquisitive things you can ask yourself to start to noodle around it. So on the resources page of my website, there, I think it's there, and if there's not, then I'll put it there. There should be what's called the meaning-making assessment. And it should just be free, click on it, it takes you to PDF. And it, I don't know about you, but I always find it helpful when...

Kim Rapach (23:54.286)
Hahaha

Jodi Wellman (24:04.465)
there is a bit of a breakdown of different categories. You know, of, okay, these are the different typical areas that's based on research from what's called the sources of meaning in life. And I love looking at that because I look at that and go, yeah, I've got nothing there, but I actually don't care about these areas. So I don't need to go find meaning there because, you know, for some people they may say, right now I am not that interested in finding meaning, maybe in spirituality. You know, maybe that's just not my bag, it may come later, maybe it never come, doesn't matter.

But meaning could be derived through social relationships, for example, it could be through sort of some sort of self-transcendence, like finding awe or wonder in an experience where you're just sort of swept off your feet. Like if you look at the stars or you're looking at the Grand Canyon, it could be through the accomplishments, which is where many of us can get tripped up, right? Because that can be taken a little too far, but that sense of, I created something and that creates also this.

fun little thing called symbolic immortality, where I believe we're all walking around with a latent, like some of us have it super buried fear of death. Some of us it's super like right near the top and we just like barely scratch the surface and then it all comes exploding, right? So it's always on our mind somewhere and I'm just trying to have it be consciously on our mind in a good way. But for many of us, we like to tamp down those fears by creating what's called symbolic

It could be just as simple as having kids that will endure beyond you, even when you know you're long gone. For many people who are creators, it could be making the movie so that 120 years from now, someone might watch your movie, or read the book you wrote. Or for non-creators, it could be donating money so that the new wing of the library is decked out, or your park bench has your name on it, those types of things. So there are sources of meaning. Number of step one to me is like, you could start to sniff around and say,

This one is low on meaning and that actually hurts my heart and my soul because I want it to mean more. Well, that's all we need. Like awareness is the precursor to change. So that might be your opportunity to go, yeah, I know I need more social connection. Maybe the pandemic burst a bubble in all your social stuff. And so you know that maybe you need to get back because that gives you a sense of connection and meaning and purpose to be there for somebody, you know, to look after their cat when they go away for the weekend, whatever that might be.

Kim Rapach (26:27.106)
Yeah.

Jodi Wellman (26:27.133)
And I think that's in a silly way, but can I just size the prize for a sec? Because I believe we put so much pressure on ourselves that meaning and purpose have to be magnanimous, that it needs to be something that people, you know, back to the seal of approval from, I don't know, strangers on social media, but like, we don't all have to save the children. You know, we don't all have to start a nonprofit or do something Nobel prize winning.

for so many people. I feel like number one, realizing that can just be this sigh of relief that, because many of us were just not wired or up, quite frankly, up for the giant task of like going and getting a government grant to like start to save water in the desert or something. Like it, you don't need, it can be something as simple as, and I've used this example before, but it's so perfect, I'm gonna use it again. There was a woman I worked with who, after much fretting,

and self judgment about, oh, but my purpose isn't big enough. It was like, all right, splash some cold water in your face, come back at it. It was, she came to this lovely purpose of, you know what? My purpose in life is to be the person that brightens people's days. Because she realized, and part of where we're gonna go next because you asked this question and it came to me immediately was when we tune into our strengths, that helps us innately feel.

Like we're just stepping into something that's just real in us and it's purposeful. So for this woman, she was one of those sort of just magical, always exuded warmth, whether it was the barista that just loved being with her or the colleague or her son or whomever that she got to interact with. She just wanted to make their days bright. So she left them smiling and just in a bit of a better mood. And when she realized that, that helped her actually do better at work because she.

sold more widgets in her job and did all the things that, so I guess shifting now, when you're in touch with what you do best, and that's a long list, right? Cause many of us, like I'd say 10, like pick 10 things that you're pretty darn great at your signature strengths. And there's actually an online assessment for character strengths that I love telling everybody to go to, it's free. It's called viacharacter.org. So VIA stands for values in action, character.org.

Jodi Wellman (28:47.005)
and it will give you out of 25 universally researched character strengths, it'll tell you where you are and do more of your top five. If you do the things that you're talented at and you do more and more and more of them, it's energizing. And it makes you feel like you're being the true you that was plopped down on this earth to be that person. There's undeniable, like it oozes with meaning. Does that make sense? Like, right?

Kim Rapach (29:13.066)
Oh my gosh, it makes so much sense. And one thing that I love when you said, be the true you, because I know so many of us.

It's like we enter the world being our true selves, right? And life beats us up. It's a point, you know, often many times. And we spend our lives going around and outside of ourselves to find ourselves, to find how am I supposed to be better? What am I supposed to be doing? What is my purpose? And I feel like one of the most powerful things that I do in my coaching is I just help people get back to who they were to begin with.

Jodi Wellman (29:39.293)
Yes!

Jodi Wellman (29:46.806)
Oh, oh, come back home, baby.

Kim Rapach (29:48.694)
You're true, yes, you're true you. You know, that might be making sugar cookies. Like what brings joy? Oh, they're amazing. It's gonna be my retirement plan.

Jodi Wellman (29:51.793)
Yeah, yeah.

Oh, can I have one? Oh, yes. If you make them gluten-free, I'll be a regular. Yeah, I like your point. We deviate, because of course, you know what, I try. I mean, I judge humanity hard, because we're all so fabulously flawed. Judge myself the worst, of course, and it's like.

Kim Rapach (30:05.288)
Okay.

Kim Rapach (30:19.627)
Right.

Jodi Wellman (30:22.205)
why do we do this shit to ourselves? Why do we do this stuff to ourselves? And yet, oh, you know what? Part of it is like the irony is like, I'm one of the encouragers about, let's be better versions of ourselves, you know, let's maximize. And so in this pursuit of more, and I think the pursuit of more can be either lovely or it can be like one's foot in the grave, right? Cause it can be.

Kim Rapach (30:26.164)
Yes.

Jodi Wellman (30:48.901)
energizing and exciting and I want to reach my potential and oh my goodness the lid is blown off my potential I didn't even know it could be that good that's lovely or it could be like I'm never enough I'm gonna try and I'm gonna run faster and harder even though I'm injured and I'm just gonna keep pushing that sounds like a life not worth living right but in our pursuit of maybe a little bit more I do think that it's easy to stray from the path and forget that

Kim Rapach (30:58.614)
Yeah, right.

Kim Rapach (31:06.766)
sure.

Kim Rapach (31:13.014)
Yeah.

Jodi Wellman (31:13.745)
Oh my goodness, one of my gifts is being creative and I just gotta be creative more. I don't have to go over there and be this strategic intellectual at the office because I think that's what they value. What if I just came home and made more homemade greeting cards for my friends and family and mailed them out and that makes me feel like a billion bucks. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (31:31.762)
Yeah, and I think that, you know, like when you were talking about your true self, when we are self-aware and we really get into understanding what our nervous system is telling us, and we understand what makes us feel alive, what makes us feel gross and heavy. And when you honor that, when you love yourself enough to honor that, I need to do more of that. Yeah.

Jodi Wellman (31:41.727)
Mm.

Jodi Wellman (31:52.509)
Yeah. Oh, okay. I love this so much because you're now, we're on the same language wavelength about what makes me feel most alive. Because in my world of like dead or alive, yes, of course there's a lot of middle ground, which is where most of us are living. But it's this, like the simplicity of the question of what makes you feel most alive. And then it's like, get your pen and paper and write a long, long bulletin point list. Because we actually have ways at our disposal.

Kim Rapach (32:12.234)
Yes.

Jodi Wellman (32:22.089)
that make us feel alive that we underestimate, that it's just a silly little thing. Oh, but our lives are just a bunch of silly things connected to each other, so why not just be more intentional about doing that silly thing on your lunch break that then might actually make you feel alive again? Like, I spoke to a woman this morning. She was setting up a workshop I was doing, she's just lovely, and she goes, I, she was talking about not getting to sleep in, even though she has young kids, and she said, no, I wanna wake up in the morning because I love my, my...

Kim Rapach (32:27.453)
night.

Jodi Wellman (32:51.441)
a lone solo coffee ritual. And I love just standing outside with the dog and surmising the garden. Like I just, I love it. That makes her feel alive. And so could she, like many of us listening in right now, we go, oh, you know what? I think I'd rather just sleep in. Like if I could take that extra like 22 minutes of my life to sleep, that would make me feel better. But maybe you're missing out on the self-reflective coffee time, the dog, the looking over the, you know, like.

there are opportunities that if we jot them out, if you sit down right now, okay, fine, when we're done talking, and write out all like just a laundry list of things that make you happy, but also just feel really alive, chances are maybe there's a bunch of them that you haven't done in a while and oh, that's the golden chance. And these are not things like yachting. This is, unless you have, if you have several yachts, then yacht away, my friend. And please invite me one time. But for the rest of us, it's making sugar cookies.

You know, or it's like, oh, I'm going to pre-plan what I'm going to order for Thai on Friday, like I said. So simple things, easy accent.

Kim Rapach (33:54.818)
Oh, I have something to share with you that I think you're gonna love. So once a year, my niece comes. She's actually my great niece, but she just left a couple days ago. She's almost nine, and she comes once a year for Yes Week.

Jodi Wellman (34:08.789)
Pardon me? Say more.

Kim Rapach (34:09.702)
Yes Week. We just say yes to whatever within reason of course. But it was a short Yes Week this year. But I mean we covered so much ground in 72 hours from you know going to the trampoline park to making sugar cookies of course. We made homemade dog biscuits. And what I always reflect on is having a you know a very fortunate to have a niece who I got to

be a fun aunt to and then I had my own child and now he's, you know, a teenager and now I have a great niece and I just feel so lucky to get to play in all these people's lives because it fills me. Right? But there I can't think of a big, huge event that would really compare.

Jodi Wellman (34:54.038)
Oh.

Kim Rapach (35:01.718)
to having no pressure, no sense of time, lots of laughter, lots of joy, lots of yeses, lots of mess, lots of color, like that fills me up.

Jodi Wellman (35:13.813)
Oh, you're in tune with it. I can tell just listening to you, I love this. And everybody right now is going, when can my yes week be? And then just make sure that you stay away from heroin dealers because that'll be off limits. But I love this so much. And what you're pointing to, yeah.

Kim Rapach (35:16.115)
Yeah, yeah.

Kim Rapach (35:21.25)
Yes!

Right?

Yes. But can't we do that for ourselves? You don't have to have a nine-year-old niece. You have you. You have you. You have yourself. Have a yes week. Even a yes day.

Jodi Wellman (35:34.269)
Yes, literally, yes.

Jodi Wellman (35:41.313)
Oh, well, do you not find, so there's always this weird balancing act between yes and no, because of course it's a school of thought about we have to say no to things to have boundaries and that we have to say yes to things in order to live life. And this to me falls more in that spectrum of widening our lives with more of the vitality. And it will always be a fine little balance, a little tiny little dance we play because on one hand, sometimes we know

that when someone says, would you like to go to the concert in the park? That when we are just beat down, like crispy fried burned out, like the right answer may be no, I would love to, but I just got to spend the night horizontal Netflix. Thank you. That's self care, that's great. However, like I, I consistently choose the homebody route. I love home as more of an introvert.

I got home decked out here. Like I am, I could just like another pandemic could hit and I would be just fine, right? So if I'm invited to a concert in the park or if whomever invites me on their yacht, hello, my inclination is like, oh, how can I, how can I pretend I'm busy and stay home? When the answer for a yes life is experience, go do it. Even if you get seasick or even if the band is total trash, it'll be funny to laugh at later. Go do the thing. And chances are,

you go and it's actually quite invigorating and you get to leave early if you want to. And so that is about participating in your life. For most of us, I think that we need to edge up that more than the saying no. For some of us, fine, you need to say no to carpooling or the things, do that too. But only we know where we can bust ourselves for being maybe just a little too, a little too careful with ourselves, dare I say.

Kim Rapach (37:25.055)
short.

Kim Rapach (37:34.154)
Yeah, and what did you say just a second ago about something in your own life? Did you say, you didn't say curtail in your own life?

Jodi Wellman (37:43.338)
Hmm.

Kim Rapach (37:45.902)
I don't recall what you said.

Jodi Wellman (37:46.793)
I don't remember the word, but it was in context about just like living small.

Kim Rapach (37:51.594)
Well, I think the most important thing to address is living with vitality also is let your know be known.

Jodi Wellman (38:01.467)
Oh, that's good.

Kim Rapach (38:02.858)
Let your no be no, but let your yeses be yes and have them crystal clear based on only your definition of what it means to live your best life.

Jodi Wellman (38:12.541)
Yeah, ah. Okay, this is so brilliant because when we are aware of when we're maybe at our limit or when we just simply don't want to engage in the thing, like no thank you, I actually have no interest in joining that committee or X, Y, Z, we can be kind with how we say it, but when we do offer a no, there is usually...

not just the feeling of relief, like, oh, thank God, I don't know if I helped my friend move her mattress this weekend or whatever, but there's usually the feeling of that sort of like, it's self satisfied in a really positive self image way of, I stood up for myself, you know? And that then builds the confidence and self efficacy, typically to then say, I'm the person that makes conscious choices in my life. I don't get roped into things because I'm a pleaser.

or because my self-worth is contingent on other people liking me? Not that I speak from experience about any of this, but I get to say, unfortunately, I'm fully booked. Maybe even if I'm not. And then feel good about the fact that I looked after myself, and what am I gonna fill the void with in the me otherwise? Right, so we only have our fricking 4,000 weeks, hopefully more, but roughly. And so do we want to feel obligated and...

Kim Rapach (39:13.763)
Me either.

Jodi Wellman (39:36.521)
Then that leads to resentment when we do the things we don't want to do. I don't want a life full of resentment. I'm thinking about-

Kim Rapach (39:39.666)
Yeah, right. And it takes away from those moments that lead us to that vitality, right? And I think of the funny, I think it's a quote, but also I think one of my favorite TikToks is, it's about boundaries. And it says, oh, I would, but I don't want to. But understanding, I think when you say no, then you get to say yes to those things that fill you up. And again,

Jodi Wellman (39:47.137)
Exactly.

Jodi Wellman (39:59.645)
Hahaha

Kim Rapach (40:08.914)
not according to someone else's definition, not according to someone else's agenda. And I think the more successful you are, regardless of what you're doing, there are more opinions and agendas that may or may not have your best interests in mind. So knowing your values, knowing your boundaries, knowing what your yeses are, knowing what makes you feel alive, knowing what your hard passes are gives you a foundation.

to really just make the most of those 4,000 Mondays.

Jodi Wellman (40:42.533)
Mm-hmm. I love the way you put all of that. Hear ye, hear ye.

Kim Rapach (40:46.182)
Well, and here, thank you. Here's something I really want to circle back to also and the importance of you deciding what your life, what your best life looks like. You were talking about the person living out in the woods, a quiet life, right? And I think, yes, a lot of people would say that sounds terrible, it sounds scary, it sounds boring. But as a wellness coach and working in mental health,

people who choose to maybe not continue their family lineage or to live out in a cabin in the woods, I think we don't give enough credit to the people who've just simply stopped generational trauma by merely living peacefully and with their own sense of joy that doesn't match maybe the overall general consensus.

Jodi Wellman (41:32.085)
Hm. Yeah? Yeah. Ah.

Kim Rapach (41:44.886)
But I think that needs to be celebrated. Because when you're peaceful and you're living in the woods, when you go into town and you go to the grocery store, I bet you're pretty cool to run into because you're not causing further harm.

Jodi Wellman (41:44.973)
Hmm.

Jodi Wellman (41:48.274)
Mm.

Jodi Wellman (42:01.109)
That's such a great point. And again, on one hand, it's a little bit of a, whatever floats your boat. So there's that whole thing of like, maybe it's living on a boat, maybe it is living in the woods, whatever that might be for you, I love that. And then to the point about, you're better to interact with other people, there's this thing called social contagion theory. And it is so true, all of that we innately know, that the negative people rub off on us, but also the positive people do, or the...

Kim Rapach (42:21.742)
Absolutely.

Jodi Wellman (42:29.717)
the different sort of states of being that when you show up, whether it is in town to get your can of beans or to go to your next meeting or to go to your next audition, the thing that just happened, you are carrying with you. It's like you wreak of it. It's coming off you. So in the world of positive psychology, one of the things that we actively talk about are positive interventions, which is this notion that-

you can create your emotional state. And Barbara Fredrickson is kind of a master of this. This is mostly her work. This idea, she's got this broaden and build theory. So there are 10 major positive emotions. So there's like love, serenity, interest, which is like curiosity, pride, contentment, inspiration, the list goes on. If you're going in, for example, for a big audition, it behooves you.

And one's amusement, which is one of my favorites. Like while you're in the car or whatever, pull up your phone and watch a funny thing or like get yourself talking to your friend that is gonna maybe make you feel the most inspired. Rig your emotions, you can rig them, which then I always then by extension say, you can rig your own happiness. If you put yourself into that state, you're gonna be exuding that no matter what. So that's a sidebar on the bigger, more profound point you were making about generational trauma, et cetera. I agree.

Do what you need to do in order to live the life that lets you feel like by the science of wellbeing, it's what makes you flourish, you know, rather than languish. Well, go for it. Now, I have to say there's one thing. This is like one caveat to living alone in the woods. As much as I don't like the woods, but living alone does sound lovely on many days to me. But one of the biggest tenants of the science of wellbeing, positive psychology, is

that almost all roads lead back to positive healthy relationships with other people. And one of the founders of the field, his name was Chris Peterson, may he rest in peace, he made a comment and said that when asked to distill positive psychology down to as few words as possible, what could you say? He said, other people matter. And then he said, there may be no happy hermits. And so as a hermit, like I want to be hermit, damn it.

Kim Rapach (44:33.973)
Amen.

Kim Rapach (44:53.751)
Mmm.

Jodi Wellman (44:56.705)
There's no chance for me to be happy if I live alone. All right, fine, all right. I'm gonna buck up and go to the concert in the park.

Kim Rapach (44:58.979)
I'm sorry.

Kim Rapach (45:02.858)
Yeah. But when you travel into town and get your can of beans, I'm sure you make quite a difference.

Jodi Wellman (45:09.457)
Oh, I'm a joy to be around. Yeah, yeah. Ha ha ha.

Kim Rapach (45:11.502)
I can tell I agree. I agree. Yeah, no, I just, I think it's important to just to think about also, like you said, that was kind of a segue, but also that generational trauma piece, if you're listening to this and you feel for whatever reason, like that's not for me. My stance is going to be there's something.

that's still unhealed, something that's been unprocessed, something has you stuck, and we can figure out what that is and we can get you unstuck, but that's from my perspective. What would be yours if someone is listening and like, what are you talking about? That's not for me. I do, that just tends to languish.

Jodi Wellman (45:50.113)
Thanks for watching!

Jodi Wellman (45:54.421)
Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you are relating that, you know, back to the, our default settings, sometimes some of us are naturally more optimistic, believe in a hopeful future. Some of us are just naturally pessimistic, believe that things are going to be kind of doomy and gloomy. And so we do have some wiring that may predicate that. And not to mention circumstance, which sounds like maybe some of what you're talking about, which is maybe overt traumatic situations, or even just like you said, it's

Kim Rapach (46:23.118)
Sure.

Jodi Wellman (46:27.697)
You know, one of the things I've come to realize in my giddy pursuit of having everybody live fully before they die, because just in case you missed it, we're all totally gonna die. I thought that was clear. One of the things I... We should put font on the screen. One of the things I've noticed is that, like, you need to want it yourself.

Kim Rapach (46:39.818)
It is now.

Jodi Wellman (46:53.097)
So as much as I might want for someone to live wide and deep, whatever again, whatever that means for them, no pressure about how it needs to look and feel and taste and sound. But some people don't have a desire to make a change. And I've had to reluctantly come to accept as somebody who likes to help others in service of this, that I can't want it more than they want it. And so number one, I think some of it is just, there needs to be a bit of a nudge and a need. And I think that for many of us,

Trauma can be the nudge that is necessary to initiate a change. So change rarely happens. This is true in nature and with humans, where just all of a sudden you wake up one day with sort of a desire for it. Often there's an impetus, like something's got to push you and it's usually discomfort. Or it's a desire to leave a state like homeostasis, leave something that is super crappy to get to something better.

rather than just to go pursue something good. So it's just that there's already a funny like vibe going on, I think with our tendencies to avoid pain rather than seek pleasure.

Kim Rapach (48:01.758)
I have a word that I use to describe that. I believe it's an invitation.

Jodi Wellman (48:04.433)
You do? What's that?

Mmm.

Kim Rapach (48:12.234)
It just, for me, it feels like an invitation. It feels like an opportunity. And I think the world would have us believe it's, oh no, it's not supposed to be this way. What if it is?

Jodi Wellman (48:25.693)
Yes, yeah. Oh, well, now you're hitting on something that I love, which is this notion of equanimity, which is like that sense of acceptance that it is what it is in some ways. And I'm gonna be very careful. We have so much control, right, to design our five-minute increments, our days, our lunch, our lives. And yet, good things happen, bad things happen.

The medley in between happens, and if we can practice equanimity, which is a little bit more than mindfulness, it's just sort of like, I think it's like, you know, the big sister of it or something. Those are clearly not scientific words, but that ability to sit back and nod and observe and not cloud our lives with the judgment associated with that is so bad, I need to fix it, I need to, this is horrible, this is what this means, because we always want to make meaning out of everything in life, unfortunately, sometimes.

or even to look at the good thing, like, oh my gosh, I was just selected for this role and this is gonna be like, this is the best thing ever. And you know what happens though, is that then we start to cling on to that. We can become almost addicted to that feeling, but we then start to crave more of it, which then inevitably causes us more distress, right? Cause it's the clamoring for that next thing that feels as good, back to heroin, that ends up.

also not serving us. And so can we be equanimous and just sit back and say, these things are happening, I'm making a lot of them happen and I'm proud of the work I've put towards this. This thing was just kind of crap look. And yet I can observe it, I can watch it, I can accept it and not wreck this moment if it's good or blow it up if it's bad by just accepting. Like this is life. And I think for many of us, for however many Mondays we have left.

the faster and more fervently we can start to adopt that. I think that makes our lives easier. More at peace, yeah.

Kim Rapach (50:30.07)
Yeah, yeah. I'm so glad you said that we do have some power and control over the life that we create, but I have a dear friend who was a chemo nurse and she would say, control what you can and flow like water with the rest. And I love that.

Jodi Wellman (50:46.389)
Oh, oh, yeah, I like that too. Yeah.

Kim Rapach (50:51.691)
and just trust the unfolding.

Jodi Wellman (50:54.213)
Exactly. And yeah, the trust I think relates back in some ways to our discussion about gratitude. You know, that there's a funny little thing that happens with being grateful and then by extension being grateful to be alive is that it tends to melt the little icebergs, you know, of those fears that we have that do tend to show up as like a desire to control is really just because we're

Jodi Wellman (51:23.805)
right, or to relinquish that sort of feeling of control and power. But when we stop and say, okay, yes, and also over here, I have a fricking heartbeat. Like I'm here right now, yes, this part is a total unmitigated shit show. And yet there are gifts that I'll talk about later, I'm sure that they emerge, because we all know, I mean, I don't wanna skip too fast to like post-traumatic growth, but their goodness comes from garbage. But that...

I get to be here and yes, this is part of the ride. And so I'm buckled up. Like I can take this. I've dealt with worse before or maybe not, but now at least I'm a freaking pioneer in my own life and I can ride this wave. Mixing metaphor with galore. This is ridiculous.

Kim Rapach (52:07.067)
Right?

Kim Rapach (52:11.178)
I forgot what I was gonna say. You're very funny. Did you?

Jodi Wellman (52:13.632)
You know what? Me too.

Jodi Wellman (52:17.737)
Wait, all I know, wait, we're talking about death. Oh my God, when in doubt.

Kim Rapach (52:20.87)
Oh yeah, we're talking about death. Yes, we're all gonna die. Have we made that clear?

Jodi Wellman (52:27.969)
Reminder.

Kim Rapach (52:29.354)
Are you familiar at all with the Enneagram?

Jodi Wellman (52:32.061)
A little bit. I don't know what the numbers or whatever mean, so keep going.

Kim Rapach (52:36.158)
Well, I was just going to say I'm in a dependent personality, and so I'm an Enneagram 6 pattern. But my worst case scenario skills are off the charts. So it has been a blessing and a curse because I'm always like, I just naturally have this gift of what could go wrong when people say, like, what's the worst that could happen? I have a lot of answers to that question. So be careful what you ask me. But it's also really right.

Jodi Wellman (52:41.857)
Okay.

Jodi Wellman (52:46.973)
Oh wow!

Jodi Wellman (52:50.795)
Mm-hmm.

Jodi Wellman (52:55.36)
Yes.

Jodi Wellman (53:02.725)
Should I turn to page 17?

Kim Rapach (53:06.134)
But it's also been a gift because it does keep that, you know, those limited Mondays, that limited time. It's like, we're running out of time. I'm running out of time. I wanna do the things. And there is the balance, like to not be reckless, but it's been a gift as well. And I do remember what I was gonna say before when you were talking about just life and the unfolding is one thing that's helped me is to remember it's not personal, right? It's to be human is not personal.

Jodi Wellman (53:14.901)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jodi Wellman (53:24.737)
We're gonna have to go.

Jodi Wellman (53:32.181)
Hmm.

Kim Rapach (53:36.254)
when things happen, when tragedy happens, when it's just the human experience. And there's no amount of scrolling on our, phones that's gonna make that go away. There's no amount of binging on whatever it is you like to binge on that's gonna make that go away. There's no amount of success that's gonna make that go away. And so if you can embrace that, and if you can embrace yourself,

Jodi Wellman (54:01.353)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (54:03.346)
and know that you are worthy of an abundant life full of vitality and that your time is limited and you can celebrate your life and yourself in a loving way. It just makes you also, I think, a better human. It makes you more fun to work with, easier to work with. You know, the people that are in your life benefit from that. And it has this ripple effect, right?

Jodi Wellman (54:29.801)
Ripple, yeah, you're right. You influence other people to think, cool, I like your way of being. I might emulate that a little bit. You seem pretty kind of cool with the, rolling with the punches. Like, you know, none of us actively signed up to be alive, but we know by now as adults that, again, like this is just, this is what we unwittingly signed up for. And yes, other than your penchant for catastrophizing, which is what we call it in the world of.

Psychology, I get it and you have a gift my little, look at you.

Kim Rapach (54:59.762)
Yep, I'm really good at it. I've learned to have fun with it. Like I literally, I don't think I get scared about it anymore. It's just like, oh, I'm doing that thing again. Yeah, it's almost comical. Yeah.

Jodi Wellman (55:11.453)
Yep, yep, well, yeah, that can sometimes put a fork in it, right? Like you bust yourself, yes. Yeah, I mean, it's just like, it's just a wild ride. And let you know, the more I, many of us think that if you put yourself out there, and I talk about participating in life, and it means maybe some fear or rejection in some ways. So there, there's a risk reward ratio.

Kim Rapach (55:15.966)
Yeah.

Jodi Wellman (55:39.985)
about getting up and off the couch and getting out there and trying, you know, going for the improv class that you wouldn't have done or trying and taking new lessons over here, or putting up a dating profile or doing the things that, here's the thing, when we know deep down that it's gonna give us a shot at more, back to the more in the good way, not in the outer breath striving way, but when it's like, all roads for me lead back to the death bed regret. If at the end,

Let's imagine it was sort of soonish. You were horizontal and you were thinking, man, these were some good times. However, I wished I had done more of X, Y, Z. That is, it's true based on research. We regret the things that we didn't take action on, the paths not taken, more than the silly things that we did and we just regret because it was stupid that we did that dumb thing. Right.

Kim Rapach (56:34.794)
Yeah. Or if we made a mistake, yeah.

Jodi Wellman (56:39.245)
Is there a thing that you would think, man, like I wished I'd done the improv class. That would have been kind of cool. And that may not take up all the air time on your deathbed, but as an example, if it was a bullet point, if it would be there, oh, you know, that's then, I think that that's back to that, what I hope ends up being a little bit of an impetus because again, time's ticking. That go sign up, you know, just give it a go. And if it, it will feel, expect it, it will feel awkward or embarrassing. But that again is part of the ride.

And it means you, what it does is it helps us to reframe all the other experiences that happened to us. So there's the difference between I signed up for improv and it was a colossal disaster, for example. I really do want to try improv, but that happened, well that was of my doing and you know what? Good for me I tried. The real, the really good you would get back on the horse, but maybe not. The other thing is that stuff's gonna happen to you, right? Like

there may be a lawsuit against you that you did not expect. And then you're gonna have to ride that wave. So the more confidence you build in saying, I do hard things and I give them a go and I give it a try and I'm okay to ride through feeling a bit rejected or feeling like an idiot on the stage or all the things, that builds the muscle of, you know what, I got this.

Kim Rapach (58:01.03)
Yeah, well, you're describing resiliency, right? We think mental health and mental wellness is about being happy all the time, and it's really not. It's about knowing I can handle whatever comes my way, and I'll be okay one way or the other. This is happening for me, not to me, and I've done a lot of work to get here, and I'm resilient, and it's okay. Yeah. So in the quiz that I took on your website,

Jodi Wellman (58:22.84)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (58:28.806)
I believe I have 1,600 and some change Mondays left. And so I just encourage everybody to go. I was like, even though I followed you, even though I have watched your TED Talk, I was really surprised by what that felt like. And I was like, whoo. It felt like, OK, this is like, I know it's not exact. It could be less. It could be more. But it inspired me just to make meaning. Just.

Jodi Wellman (58:33.057)
Okay. Yeah.

Jodi Wellman (58:45.109)
What did it feel like?

Kim Rapach (58:57.386)
you know, not to go do everything, not to, again, not to be risky, not to overwork myself, not to burn out, but to live, to live a life that's true to me, true to my family, and true to, you know, what I want to do with my career. And it really felt amazing. And I'm just, I'm really excited about the work that you're doing. And I just wonder, is there anything, oh no, I have one more thing I wanted to ask you.

Jodi Wellman (59:25.749)
Hmm

Kim Rapach (59:26.078)
I wanted to tell you, because I wanted to know if you would agree, I've talked about this with someone else on another episode, where it's an amazing feeling when you get to a point in your life where you feel like the rest, like that's what I was thinking about with the 1600 Mondays left, when you feel like the rest is bonus, that's an amazing feeling.

And I would love that for more people to go, I really have done a lot. And again, that's personal definition. I haven't been to Bali, but I've done a lot of really cool things that have been very meaningful to me and have filled my spirit and enhanced my relationships and things that I just tuck away in my heart. And they may be completely irrelevant and meaningless to the next person, but to me, they're special. And then when you hit that point, you're like,

Jodi Wellman (59:59.697)
Yep.

Jodi Wellman (01:00:05.438)
Yeah.

Jodi Wellman (01:00:11.381)
Mm-hmm.

Jodi Wellman (01:00:15.009)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Rapach (01:00:19.666)
If I'm on my deathbed, I feel really good. I feel like I've made an impact. I feel like I've done and continue to do what I've been put here to do. I wanna do more of it, but what a ride and just wanting that for more people.

Jodi Wellman (01:00:21.032)
Mm-hmm.

Jodi Wellman (01:00:37.041)
Uh, you're describing a friend of mine, her dad was diagnosed with late stage cancer and she and her sisters assumed that he was gonna wanna do a bunch of different things. He said, no, you know what? I've lived my life. Like, I feel like I've done what I wanna do. I just wanna spend time with you and your sisters and maybe a bit of golf while I can. We're good. And so my dad calls it playing with house money. He has negative 280 Mondays left.

to live and yeah, meaning he's over the average age that men live till and he's, you know, of that, like, like I'm good and I, you know, it's kind of like, like you said, getting to the end on the best bet, I mean like, peace out. And I love that. I love the bonus idea. That is, think that's a beautiful one.

Kim Rapach (01:01:11.561)
Wow.

Kim Rapach (01:01:27.094)
Yeah, and I mean, would you agree that people who maybe aren't in touch with the inevitable limited time are also maybe prone to more apathy?

Jodi Wellman (01:01:42.833)
Research shows that, yes. So there's a direct correlation between even, so the extent that when you get to the end and you feel like you've just, you killed it, in a good way, then typically you're more at peace and your anxiety is way dissipated. Conversely, if you get to the end and you feel like, oh my gosh, there's all these things I'm unlived, I haven't done this or that, or that or that, and the list goes on.

Kim Rapach (01:01:44.875)
Yeah.

Jodi Wellman (01:02:10.985)
then they tend to be clearly more anxious about this feeling of the kuru shirwara, is the way I just like distill it. So to live a life now that feels more at peace, even if you are consciously or unconsciously aware of any kind of anxiety around death, one of the best antidotes to that is just to get out and fricking start living. Cause that then mitigates some of that feeling of, have I not done this life justice? Cause that is a fear for many of us.

Kim Rapach (01:02:38.158)
Yeah, I was hoping you were gonna say that. Would you, I guess you've given a lot of resources. You have resources on your social media and on your website. I encourage everybody to check those out. 4,000 Mondays. But Jodi, would you also maybe have one or two things like just today, maybe just, you know, a suggestion to try this, just start here. Regardless of where people are in their career.

Jodi Wellman (01:02:39.829)
Hehehehe

Jodi Wellman (01:03:04.001)
Ooh, ooh, ooh. Yeah. Well, immediately this thing came to my mind around one of what I call is like the low hanging fruit in the world of positive psychology. And it's called positive anticipation. It's having something to look forward to. So my immediate, like just a quick hit, cause I don't know about you, but I just want like quick grabs. I don't wanna work for my happiness. I mostly kid. Is look at your calendar and...

you kind of want to rig your life again so that you have something to look forward to every week, month, and year ahead. So it's always kind of moving along, right? And it does not need to be like, oh I'm going to Malta to film that movie. Like well that would be great. However, let's also be more realistic and say that could be maybe the thing in the year, like a bigger thing. But it could be that you're just really looking forward to going and having coffee with that long-lost friend you haven't caught up with in a long time, right? Or...

that you are going to watch the next show that comes out that you've been dying to watch that's been released, right? Or you're gonna go to the movie or something in the calendar that may, and again, only you know what it will take for you to feel like it's something to look forward to, but it doesn't need to be high budget, high time constraint or resource. Because again, like I told you earlier, I'm looking forward to Thai food on Friday night. And that is very manageable for time and money and so on.

So have somebody to look forward to a week, a month, a year in advance is one. And then the second thing, I always come back to this, this shall be no surprise, but befriend the reaper. Do not shy away. I mean, obviously if he's like knocking on your door, don't answer, but in general, go after him, like pursue a friendship with him because acknowledging and regularly practicing the mento mori, which is that notion of, yep, I'm in touch with it. Yep, I get it. Yep, oh, I'm counting my Mondays.

That's the very animating thing that can get you to get up and on and out and doing the things as hard or scary or interesting or riveting that they may be. Again, mortality is the motivator, so let's use it to our advantage.

Kim Rapach (01:05:16.958)
Yeah, thank you so much. This is so powerful. I love what you're doing. And I just I'm so grateful that you took the time to be here. And I know it's gonna make a big difference. So thank you. And I'll keep in touch. But keep doing what you're doing, because it's powerful.

Jodi Wellman (01:05:35.106)
Oh, I appreciate it. It's been so great chatting with you. Thank you.

Kim Rapach (01:05:38.154)
Same to you, thank you.

Kim Rapach (01:05:44.246)
Here we go.