The Work of Warriors

Kim Rapach (00:01.307)
And of course we can edit out anything we don't like. So we have that too. Doug, welcome to the work of warriors. I'm so glad you're here.

Doug Bopst (00:04.075)
It's all good.

Doug Bopst (00:11.256)
Kim, thank you so much for having me.

Kim Rapach (00:13.61)
Absolutely. So in an effort to bring mental wellness to the entertainment industry, we focus on the definition of a warrior being not someone who fights for everyone else all the time, which many of us have been, for various reasons, conditioned to do, but someone who actually knows and is committed to fighting for themselves first. And so someone who knows they matter, they know their worth, they know their boundaries, and they're doing that work and living that

not to be selfish by any means, but so that they can actually have a greater impact on the world. And watching your content, listening to your podcast and hearing a bit of your story, I would say you are definitely a warrior, which is why I reached out to you to come on today. But I don't think that's always been the case. And so I think that's where a lot of us struggle, especially for people who've had trauma, the jump from

believing that one certain lifestyle will save them and then hitting that dark season, then having to choose whether or not to fight for themselves. And you obviously chose. So I was wondering if you would just share a bit of your story with our listeners.

Doug Bopst (01:25.845)
I appreciate it.

Doug Bopst (01:34.184)
or so but that wasn't always the case. I did have a lot of hardship and trauma growing up, whether that was my parents getting divorced, which was kind of a traumatic divorce, being picked on in school a lot, being bullied, being rejected by girls, being hyper insecure and anxious and depressed as a kid. I'm not making the sports teams when I wanted to make the teams like I love sports and everything. And so I felt like I did have this battle.

that I needed to fight in that battle was getting to a place where I felt secure as a boy, as a young man, as a young adult. And I was scared to fight because that the thought of, you know, you know, choosing something different, the thought of standing up for myself, a thought of, you know, facing my emotions head on was incredibly painful for me. Because you know, you

as a guy specifically, I think that when you're growing up, if you talk about your emotions or you talk about how you're sad or something, you're seen as being weak, or you're seen as being a wuss, or you're seen as not being strong. And so I was already in a place where I was feeling so insecure with myself, and I was feeling weak as a man, that the thought of me expressing myself in that kind of way just seemed nearly impossible. And...

So what I did was instead of taking the hard route and really facing things head on, I chose to take the easier route and self-medicate with things and self-medicate with food as a young teenager or as a, I mean, really as a, I guess, as a 10, 11, 12 year old. And then that led to, I started to use marijuana as a way to cope and self-medicate and that led to other drugs like cocaine. Then eventually where that,

or that really led me was to using and abusing OxyCot and then selling tons of drugs along the way. And what I found is that the battle that I had been originally facing became much tougher because now I wasn't just facing a battle, I was facing a war that I had created. And I think that a lot of time, and I wanna say a few things here because I think it's important. A, I don't know

Doug Bopst (04:02.492)
If, like, I don't know if I, if somebody was telling me, told me as a kid, like, Doug, you need to do these things to, to fix this. You need to like open up, share about your, what you're going through, talk to your parents, talk to the school, change your friends. Like, I don't know if I would have chosen any differently to be honest, cause as a kid, it's just different. It's not like I'm a 27 year old adult or a 35 year old where I have all this emotional maturity, my brain is fully developed as a kid. The only thing you're trying to do is just.

be liked in school, have a good peer group, get good grades, get attention from people that you're interested in, and have some fun, and then kind of just move on, right? And so that's all I really wanted. And I say that because I think a lot of times when I share that I could have chosen differently and I took the hard path, or I took the easy way out.

it means that I have no sympathy for people who do that. And it's like, I certainly do because it's a challenging road as a kid. And you're doing whatever you possibly can just to stay the course and not self-destruct. And the other thing that I will say is that I think when we're going through hard times in any stage of our lives, and I talk about this a lot on the podcast,

is we think because we're going through one battle that it's okay to create a hundred more battles because of that one battle, because it's easy just to point back to the fact that, you know, you went through something challenging and this is why the rest of your life is self-destructed. Instead of just acknowledging that I had this one battle and I chose to respond in the way that I did. So again, I think two things can be true. I think what I said before, which was that

Um, you know, as a kid, things are tough and it's like, I don't think most kids have the emotional bandwidth or maturity to process certain things like I might now, or like people might now at the end of the day, they're just trying to survive. And on the flip side of that, I also think that we are a result of the choices that we make in response to a lot of these situations. And so.

Doug Bopst (06:23.684)
once we understand that we begin to realize that, you know, even though we might not be happy with some of the choices we may have made in a battle, we can choose differently next time in order to begin to like win that battle and then potentially hopefully like win this war that we end up creating for ourselves. And for me, my battle really came, I guess, full circle in a way when I was incarcerated on felony drug charges back in 2008.

And it was like the heart was probably the one of the hardest moments of my life. But it was also one of the greatest blessings in my life, because when I got to jail, I was a convicted felon. I had a, you know, I was snorting several hundreds. I was snorting several hundred milligrams of oxy cotton up my nose every single day to support my habit. I had 21 jobs, but I had 21 jobs. I was 21 years old at the time. So I essentially had a job for every year that I was born. Damage relationships with friends and family, no self-esteem.

no confidence at all, highly depressed, highly anxious, thoughts of like not wanting to be on earth anymore, all these things that I had going against me. And then on top of that, I'm in jail and then detoxing cold turkey from OxyContin. And I ended up getting connected to a guy who ended up being my cellmate when I was in jail and it completely transformed my life. And the reason that I say that,

is because he was sitting there playing this Scrabble at one of the tables in jail. And he looked at me and he's like, Doug, when you get through your detox, you're going to start working out with me. And I sat there and I said to him, I was like, there's no way I'm going to work out with you. Like, have you seen me? I could have been a model for Pillsbury. And this guy looked like a more jacked version of Brad Pitt from Fight Club. So I was highly intimidated, highly insecure, being like, there's no way that I'm going to embarrass myself in front of this guy and others that are in jail. And so he's like, all right, man, whatever.

And then not too long after that, we had a conversation in the jail cell that completely has shifted the way I think about life today. And I actually just recorded a podcast on something similar to this in that we were sitting there in the cell and he kept asking me, I think like most people who were like trying to coach people, they were trying to ask better questions. And he's like, you know, he was asking me why I was there. He was asking me, you know,

Doug Bopst (08:48.768)
He's asked me why I was there, what got me into drugs and so on and so forth. And I started to blame everybody else for my problems, but myself. And he looked at me and he told me, I mean, in the PG, the PG version, as he looked at me and he said, just quit being, quit being a wuss, quit being a victim. And I just was kind of shook because in that moment, I thought that I was going to get all this sympathy and him coddle me and be like, it's okay, Dougie, like the world's against you, like the world's a dark place. And you know, everything is everybody else's fault.

But he looked at him and he said...

He looked at me and he said, you're blaming everybody for your problems but yourself. He said, there's plenty of people that go through what you went through and aren't in jail, right Doug? And I'm like, yep. He said, you have two choices. You can be a man, look yourself in the mirror and say, you got yourself here and it's up to you to change or you can go be a victim in a wuss and go cry in the corner and say, woe is me. And I felt invigorated because the drugs had gotten out of my system.

essentially at this point almost, and I started to think a little bit more clearly, and I was like, man, well, clearly, I don't have everything figured out. Like, I've been trying to fight this battle in life in a way that's hyper unproductive and running away from the fight and running away from my problems and hiding in a corner, hiding in the tree, hiding in the bushes and using drugs and everything else to self-medicate, that now I'm in jail, convicted on felony drug charges, serving, you know, a few months on a...

I was a total of five, it was a five year sentence, but the sentence, everything on the sentence was suspended but the 90 days that I had to do in jail. And then I have all these, again, damaged relationships, my family, my friends, you know, a horrible track record with work and everything else that clearly I don't have everything figured out. And so it forced me to look at my life differently. And he essentially just told me, he's like, listen, like nobody's gonna come in here and save you. You gotta do the work yourself. You gotta fight this yourself because no one else is gonna fight for you. And I share that because I think it's just,

Doug Bopst (10:50.68)
kind of encapsulates beautifully what we've talked about or what I've shared, I guess, in the last few minutes in that in life, you're gonna face battles. There's gonna be hardship. And I think there's a lot of things that are super unfortunate that happen to people. And I think there's hardships that frankly, like sometimes, you know, it's okay to fight them in the wrong way. I mean, I think sometimes we're only able to deal with life in which...

the coping skills that we have developed at that time and the emotional intelligence, but at the end of the day, the only person that is going to save you and that's gonna fight that battle for you is yourself. Like I was looking for drugs to come save me. I was looking for my family to save me. I was looking for friends to save me. I was looking for girls to save me, athletics to save me, and none of that stuff saved me at all. And to make matters worse,

Like I had no luck with any of that stuff that I thought was gonna save me. So it wasn't even like I was having success and that was just fueling some like, you know, weird addiction to external validation at that time. Like I had no luck and I still continue to chase those things, even though it's self-destructed my life. And so what jail taught me is that I have to face my own battles. I have to fight for myself or no one else is going to do it for me. And that has obviously been a huge catalyst for what I do today. It hasn't been perfect.

Um, there's been times, you know, since I got out of jail where I've had different battles, not with addiction to substances, but with addiction to external validation and vanity and the way I looked and fitness and stuff like that, that I really had to take a deep look inside and say that, you know, like I can't, um, I can't use other people's opinions and the way that people think about me.

to fuel how I conduct myself and fuel my life. I have to set the stage for that first and then everything else is an extension of that.

Kim Rapach (12:52.242)
Yeah, and absolutely. And when you use that external validation as a fuel, it actually gets in the way and it just clogs everything up anyway of what you're supposed to be doing here to begin with, right?

Doug Bopst (13:02.588)
Yeah, because it's fleeting, but it's addicting too, because it's easy to just live off of the opinions of others and the validation of others, because I mean, in many ways it can be simple to do. I mean, you could post a picture online and get a lot of validation, or I could just send a bunch of text messages and like just wanna communicate with people all the time, or I could play the person that...

I could also just be the person that's always there for everybody else, even though I'm sacrificing my own time just to feel like, just to fill this like hero complex that I think I have deep down in some ways. And at the end of the day, what I also want to say is I do think that money is important. I do think that health is important. I do think relationships are important.

I do think attraction to other people is important. I think all these things that have a slippery slip are very important in life. However, I think if you're doing them for the wrong reasons and that becomes what you use to fill a void inside of you that you haven't worked on yourself, that's where you get into trouble. And so I've seen both sides of it where I was getting plenty of attention from women in my 20s. I was super ripped and in very good shape.

um, aesthetically, I was making great money. I was getting accolades, but I still wasn't comfortable with myself on the inside totally. And because of that, I began to chase more and more of that stuff. It was like, all right, I'm 7% body fat. How do I get to six? I'm six. I'm still not happy. How do I get to five with women? It was like, I'm getting attention from a girl that looks like this. I need to get attention now from a girl that looks like that. And it, and it all is, it's, it's this crazy trap we that we sometimes fall into because

At least for me specifically. And again, I don't think there's anything wrong with this because I think it's, it's healthy. What I think what I'm about to say is there's two sides to it. Two things can be true. And I think as a guy, your level of success, at least in society in some ways is dictated by how much money you make, your athletic ability, what you look like, who you're dating, at least it was like, that's how I viewed it, you know, growing up and stuff.

Doug Bopst (15:19.264)
And again, I think those things are important. However, for somebody who was super insecure like myself growing up, that became a slippery slope because I didn't have any of those things and I was miserable. So I was like, well, all I need to do is get those things and I'll be happy. And then once I got those things in my 20s after I cleaned my life up and got into a pretty healthy place, I still was miserable. And I was even more like angry because I felt that I had been sold this bill of goods.

I had been sold this bill of goods, and then I'd worked so hard to get to this thing for the wrong reasons. And so that forced me to get into therapy and reevaluate my relationship with my past and forgiveness and how I viewed like health and wellness as a whole, to make sure that I was doing everything for the right reasons and that if I got out, if I like fell down the steps and broke my legs, I would still find a way to love myself for who I am, right?

if I didn't get the girl or didn't get the date, that I would still find a way to love myself for who I am. That if I didn't run that mile in the way that I wanted to, I would still find a way to love myself for who I am. And so that's where the game changed for me, to where all of what I do now is just an extension of how I feel and validate myself internally.

It's become much easier for me to say no to certain women that I all that I would have said yes to before that I would have continued to chase even though they weren't interested in me It's allowed me to be more at peace when I feel like I need a rest day at the gym And I don't work out or I want a piece of pizza or whatever it is So yeah I can't emphasize enough like working on yourself and being your own warrior because at the end of the day if you're not gonna fight For yourself nobody else will

Kim Rapach (17:02.11)
Yeah, it's so powerful. And I feel like we could just end right here and I could say, thanks Doug. You said everything that needs to be said. But I could take this in many different directions. But the first thing I think I wanna focus on is thank you for speaking about your perspective and your experience as a man. I think we don't speak about this enough as far as how we condition boys and men to not be expressive of their very human.

Doug Bopst (17:06.444)
Hahaha

Doug Bopst (17:10.054)
Thank you.

Kim Rapach (17:31.27)
normal emotions and we create an unsafe environment for them. And then when they're adults and they struggle with that, we're surprised. And I think we see that with very successful men where we're surprised when they've done everything that everyone has told them to do. They locked down their emotions, they got ripped, they got rich, they got the girl, they got the career, but they're still miserable and they blow up their lives or.

Doug Bopst (17:41.014)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (17:59.786)
Sadly, we lose them and we're shocked. And so I just wanna say thank you for saying that because I have great compassion for men and a lot of my clients are men. And even in my couples coaching to help women or their partners understand that it's not safe. And so your nervous system might feel like it's just literally not safe for me to talk about how I feel. So I'm glad that you said that. The other thing too is in the fitness industry, I think there's...

There are different perspectives. There are a lot of people doing great work on mindset in regards to physical fitness. But what I love about your work, and I have even more respect for the work that you do, is that you balance that story. You understand, you talk about trauma, but it doesn't define you. In fact, it fuels you to fight for yourself, to be healthier, not only physically, but emotionally.

Doug Bopst (18:57.256)
Yeah, I mean, there's so many ways I guess I could come back with that as well. And I think that emotions are a funny thing, right? Because I think that in many ways, we see emotions like sadness, and anger, and sorrow, and stuff like that as negative emotions because of what they can lead to.

Right, because of all the debauchery and despair and violence that those emotions could potentially lead to. But those emotions, what I've learned, you make sometimes some of your greatest and best decisions in your life in times of anger and sadness. Like, I mean, I can think about every time I wanted to change, whether it be the, when I was in jail, I was angry at myself, I was sad, I was miserable, I was in despair. When I had the...

awakening with how I viewed my body and external validation. I was in despair. I was in a state of anger. I was in a state of sorrow. I wasn't like, super happy when I made those decisions, right. But I was in a place where I was feeling a certain way and I was comfortable with harnessing them and talking to them in a way that's productive. And then that leads to that leads to and creates this bridge for transformation. And so I do think that

Doug Bopst (20:20.708)
as men we do have to express how we feel. I do think there's a fine line. I do think it's not a green light just to snap on people when you want to. I don't think it's a green light to just always just emotionally dump and vent to people whenever you want to. I mean, I think that goes with anybody. I think that in my experience, I think it's always been best that I gain some self-reflection when I'm feeling emotional and process it on my own a little bit and then take it.

to somebody else, unless I'm in therapy or something where I have a professional, that's like kind of helping me unpack it if I have a lot going on. And so I do, I do think there is a healthy balance with all of that. Um, but you're right. Like I think we live in this world of extremes where it's either show all emotion or show zero emotion. And I think it's a dance that we all have to walk with over time and that we get better at over time where we understand like, all right, what's worth

Kim Rapach (21:07.923)
Right.

Doug Bopst (21:19.352)
Is it worth expressing myself over this or is it just, is it a small thing that I honestly shouldn't be sweating? Because there is sometimes, there's these small things in life that if we fret over too much, we let it rob us of our day. And then we wake up the next day and we're like, why did I worry about that so much? And so if you can gain the self-awareness around that and be like, all right, I know I shouldn't worry about these things or I shouldn't let it.

bother me this much or why is it bothering me so much? What can I do to better self-regulate during those times? I think it can give you some amazing blessings down the road. But I do think that it's important, I mean, no matter who you are, it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman, that you are strong, you know, emotionally, mentally, like doing what you can physically to become strong.

I mean, there's a huge movement now for resistance training and especially I'm seeing it more pop amongst women because I've seen, I mean, I've been a trainer for 12 years and just seeing what I've seen online as well, like so many women are so happy when they feel strong as a human being and they're able to like lift a certain amount of weight or they're able to do something that just makes them feel like powerful, right? And obviously that also occurs in men, but I'm talking about

what I've just seen in the movement with, I'm just so happy to see this because for a while, people frowned upon women lifting weights because they thought they would quote unquote get bulky or whatever right now that we found out that was just a big myth. It's cool to see this kind of all come into popularity now.

Kim Rapach (22:56.49)
Well, and I want to say like for me, you know, I was a therapist. I've been in therapy. I've been in coaching. I've done my inner work for so long. I, you know, it took me a long time to figure out like consistency in the gym and with working out and I knew I needed it, but it was when I really, like when I had a trainer who with that strength training, it, like it was another layer of like, Oh my gosh, my life just changed again. And it is that strength of feeling like I can do hard things. And when you can do hard things, you can lift heavy things.

It builds a mental and emotional resistancy too, that when life comes at you, when things happen, and hard things happen, which happened to all of us, it's not personal, you have more resiliency because you have done that work both mentally but also physically within yourself, and it's so powerful, it really is.

Doug Bopst (23:46.24)
Yeah, I think there's four pillars of fitness. There's the, there's physical fitness, there's emotional fitness, there's mental fitness, there's spiritual fitness. You know, and the crazy thing about physical fitness is you can be spiritually fit, and you can be going to church, you can be meditating and being of service, you can be practicing Buddhism, whatever your like flavor of that is, you can be mentally fit, going to therapy, expressing gratitude.

you know, doing what you can to be around great people. You can be emotionally fit. You can work on your emotions, you know, engage in proper stress management techniques, work on your trauma, all that stuff. But doing those three things aren't gonna make you more fit, right, at all. However, you can be, when you're more fit physically, it improves as other areas of your life tremendously. And so that's why I do think that physical fitness is like this gateway drug to personal development, this gateway drug to

transformation to mental and emotional intelligence because it gives you all these great things for free, right? Like it helps you build self-confidence, helps you create discipline, helps you develop a sense of community because you're typically spending time with people that are like-minded when you're at the gym. It gives you perspective.

It gets you, it works your adversity muscle where you got to persevere through things when they get tough, keeps you focused on the future and stuff like that. And there's not a lot of other things in life that give you all those things at once, right? So I just think it's super important. And again, it's also a great thing to bring it all back to harness your emotions. And because a lot of times now

when I work out, it's not because I'm trying to grow my biceps, it's more for my mental health and stress relief and just to make sure that I'm doing what I can to optimize, you know, my mental and emotional wellbeing.

Kim Rapach (25:48.714)
Yeah, for me, I just posted on my story. I think it was just Facebook, but I posted that, you know, for some, for a trauma survivor, working out fitness is medicine. If I were sick, I would take my medicine and I don't always want to work out, but I take my meds every day and it's, I'm a very, I'm a different person from when I get to the gym, when I leave the gym, I'm entirely different. I have an entirely different.

Doug Bopst (25:59.573)
Hmm.

Kim Rapach (26:15.21)
Mindset and you're right it pours over into everything else and it's harder at least I've experienced It's harder to go the other direction. That's the direction I went and it did solidify it But I think when you start with that fitness for sure, it gives you the tools for every to build out all those other areas

Doug Bopst (26:31.8)
For sure. I mean, it really does. And there's not many things, like I said, like it, that give you all these benefits. And again, we're not even, I haven't even talked about the physical health benefits that fitness gives you and staying in shape gives you, right? This is all just some of the other mental and emotional resilience things that fitness ends up leading to. Did I?

Kim Rapach (26:45.599)
Right, right.

Kim Rapach (26:52.074)
Yeah. Oh, you're cutting out on me a little bit.

Doug Bopst (26:58.745)
Can you hear me?

Kim Rapach (26:59.998)
Yeah, I can't you cut like froze for a second.

Doug Bopst (27:03.394)
Did I? Okay, let me, I said, what did you last hear me say?

Kim Rapach (27:07.742)
You were just saying I haven't even talked about the physical. We were just talking about the mental.

Doug Bopst (27:10.992)
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I guess I haven't even talked about the physical benefits that come from exercise. I was just specifically talking about the mental and emotional and obviously, physical being physically fit and healthy gives you a wide array of benefits from a longevity from a biological and physiological perspective. And but the mental and emotional resilience that it helps you build

I just think is life changing. And it doesn't have to be, like I'm talking about strength training, I'm talking about going to the gym and you're hearing me say that. It doesn't necessarily have to be just that. I mean, sometimes the best thing somebody can do is just go for a walk, right? Or to just maybe take a yoga class or just take an exercise class or maybe just do some pushups at home or whatever it is. Like you have to find what works for you.

and then just stick to that to the best of your ability.

Kim Rapach (28:10.71)
Right. And what I teach my clients about is their nervous system. It's again, one of the things I really appreciate about your work is that you identify that your story matters, your experiences matter and they impact what you're responding to and they don't define you and here's what we're going to do about it. And that's, I mean, that's a lot of what I do, but teaching that nervous system when people say, I just can't, I just don't have any energy. I feel depressed. I feel.

Doug Bopst (28:14.343)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (28:35.286)
You know, I just can't do anything. I'm not motivated. It's the first thing is bring your nervous system back online. And whether that's through like, you know, tapping or getting out into nature and going for a walk, there are things you can do that are so empowering that I just think we're not given enough attention to that. We have so much power within us to bring our nervous system back online or to bring our nervous system down if we're overstimulated and you know, it is it's get outside, get to the gym and it's.

You know, I have a list on my phone that's called the damn thing. And it's just my damn thing list, like do the damn thing. I don't always want to, but when I do it, I feel a lot better. And so just do it. But that's where I think people struggle is like you have to make that conscious choice to fight for yourself. So I'm wondering like, what is it within you?

Like you've shared your experience, you've shared your story, you share what you do, you're impacting lives, but what is it Doug within you that you know that you're worth fighting for? How do you, how do you get there every day?

Doug Bopst (29:44.172)
I think for me, I just remember why I got started into this place, why I got started into doing what I'm doing in the first place and how I felt when I wasn't fighting for myself. I tap into that. I think about the kid that just wanted to be loved. I think about the kid that was miserable. I think about the kid that was emotionally broken and bankrupt in every area of my life. And I think about...

what not fighting for yourself looks like and it looked like that. And so that forces me to stay on the path. What also forces me to stay on the path is I just know that the days that I don't feel like showing up for myself, or typically the days that I need to show up for myself, and that that's going to build this resilience and an adversity muscle that will end up allowing me to feel so much better down the road. I mean, it's funny, it's like, I mean, there's probably been

Kim Rapach (30:16.735)
Yeah.

Doug Bopst (30:43.064)
50 times in the last six months or so that I haven't wanted to go to the gym, that I felt tired. I was like, man, I don't feel like working out today. Because everybody has this idea that because somebody's a trainer, they're into health, that every day they're like ear to ear smile with wanting to go to the gym. It's not that, it's not true. However, I would say that 98% of those 50 times that

Kim Rapach (31:01.566)
I was going to say thank you for saying that.

Doug Bopst (31:11.828)
I didn't feel like going to the gym where I went anyway. I was so thankful that I went because I felt so much better afterwards. There's been maybe like a couple of times, so I'm being honest, there's been a couple of times where I should have just rested because I was so tired, but I was like, you know what? Like I need to get this workout in, I'm super stressed. And then I got home and I was like, you know, maybe the best thing for my body that day would have been like a more just Zen type workout. But 98% of the time, it's like I'm so much

better that I went and it has nothing really to do with the physical benefits. I'm not like, man, I'm glad that I went and worked my chest muscles or my biceps or my legs or whatever. It's more like I come back and I'm like, man, I'm, I'm thankful. I'm thankful that I didn't give up on myself today. I'm thankful that I believed in myself. I'm thankful that I love myself. I've honestly, I'm thankful that I didn't, um, I didn't, I'm thankful that

Kim Rapach (31:57.452)
Yes.

Doug Bopst (32:10.656)
I didn't give up just because things got hard and I wasn't soft today. And then I realized that sometimes in life, you got to play hurt. Like you're not always going to feel a hundred percent. And what I've learned is that even though you're not feeling a hundred percent, it doesn't mean that you can't give it like a hundred percent of your effort that day. And so that's really just helped me build emotional and mental resilience over time.

Kim Rapach (32:17.838)
Oh shoot, you froze on me again.

Doug Bopst (32:36.196)
because now I don't think about it. Now I don't contemplate at the door, like should I go to the gym today? It's like, oh, I gotta do it. Like I wanted to go to the gym. To be honest, this morning I wanted to go to the gym and then ended up one thing led to the next and got caught up in emails and I had to walk my dog. Then I had some clients and I had some other things to do. And then now I'm here talking to you and I'm like looking at my schedule. I'm like, man, I can't get to the gym until like six o'clock tonight, but I'm still gonna go because it's like, I'm staying committed to myself. And

The best way to build self-confidence, to build self-trust is to stay committed to the things you say you're gonna do. Because if you tell yourself on a daily basis, I care about my health, I'm strong, I wanna get in shape, but then your actions don't reflect that, there's gonna be this cognitive dissonance that exists in your brain, you're just not gonna believe yourself anymore. And then when you don't believe in yourself and you don't have any

and you don't believe in yourself, how are you expected to develop any sense of hope or faith in your life and belief in yourself when things are getting tough? Because in the past, you've shown yourself that you're not gonna follow through with things you say you're gonna do. And that also obviously transfers into other relationships where,

you have a hard time trusting other people because you don't trust yourself. You don't trust your intuition. You don't follow through with what you say you're gonna do. So you have a hard time like practicing discernment with other people and practicing integrity and practicing being authentic to yourself because you haven't been consistent with, you haven't been consistent with validating yourself in that way. And so it ends up impacting other relationships as well.

Kim Rapach (34:26.218)
Right. And I think, I mean, I don't even need to say really much more because you expounded so beautifully on that. The only thing I want to just touch on that I think is also so important is where you said your why you remember that kid who needed to feel loved, who needed to feel confident. And I feel like if you can look back on what you needed, that's where the story really matters, but where so many people get stuck. Right. But if you can.

be the person who looks back and says, oh, you needed to be loved, I needed to be loved. Well, guess what? I'm the first person who's gonna show up and show that to my younger self and do that work. Like we have to, like nobody else is coming. We have to be the one who shows up and says, no, I don't abandon myself anymore. I am committed to that younger version of myself or that part of my story that hurts and really choose that fight in that regard.

Doug Bopst (35:19.38)
Yeah. And I think a lot of it too, just comes down to this immense amount of gratitude I have for my life and where I'm at right now. And I, and honestly, I think I just owe it to my cellmate who passed away last year. I feel like I owe it to certain members of my family who have believed in me, certain people that have helped me. Again, not that they're responsible for fighting my battle, but I also have gratitude for that because I'm super thankful that a lot of people

gave up their time, some people have invested in me and done all these things that I'm thankful for that. And the greatest way for me to show appreciation and gratitude for that is through my actions and to keep going. And I also have gratitude for the people that support me online and people listen to my podcasts and I wanna be an example. And I'm telling people all the time, when it gets hard, show up for yourself, when you don't feel like doing it, do the thing anyway, that I have to be able to do that as well.

Again, there's extenuating circumstances where I'm like, I can't, you know, I shouldn't go to the gym because I'm on like an hour and a half sleep. And it's probably the, I would advise somebody who's reaching out to me to probably stay home as well, but get back on the, get back on the train the next day. And, um, but yeah, I think there's so many things that motivate me to get me out of bed. I just think that because I've been doing this for so long, I don't think about it anymore. I'm just up.

Kim Rapach (36:42.794)
Yeah, yeah, it's just what you do now. Yeah, so I have a question. You've talked about past experiences with essentially suicidal ideation, questioning whether or not you should even be here. And what I'm wondering, a lot of people that I hope hear this are those who are successful. They've gotten all the things they were told they were supposed to get, and they're still miserable.

Doug Bopst (36:43.584)
It's just there. My brain is like, all right, it's just what you do.

Doug Bopst (36:58.317)
Right.

Kim Rapach (37:11.51)
Have you, did you experience that darkness after you were successful? I think that's what you said. Like after you had the girl after, you kept moving that goalpost. You kept wanting different, you know, validation. Did you experience that darkness emotionally after you were successful and ripped and making money?

Doug Bopst (37:34.168)
I never had suicidal ideation when I was successful. I had thoughts of not being here when I was doing drugs. I would crush up a line of cocaine and Oxycontin and I would think to myself, like, all right, would anybody ever miss me if I snorted this and I didn't wake up? I would do stuff like that and I would think about would people miss me or thinking about what my funeral would look like and stuff like that when I was a kid. But it wasn't that extreme when

Kim Rapach (37:50.414)
Mm.

Doug Bopst (38:03.752)
I was struggling when I was successful, when I was struggling with it, when I was successful, it was more just this immense amount of anger and pain, and I felt betrayed and lied to by myself and others in society about what happiness looked like and what it takes to be fulfilled. And I was also just...

I guess, overall just really hurt, you know, through, because of the way I treated myself and because of what I believed and I was just kind of in a way hopeless, in the sense, in certain areas of my life, not hopeless in like a not wanting to be here kind of way, but hopeless in the sense of like, am I ever gonna find love? Am I ever going to be happy with myself? Am I ever going to, you know, find, you know, the fulfillment that I've been fully looking for and stuff like that?

And that required me to again, do some, a lot of deep therapy and work on trauma and work on why I viewed myself in the way that I did. And once I understood why I viewed myself as the fat dug still and why I viewed myself as the kid who was my younger me and it was worthless and a failure. Once I understood the reason I viewed myself like that, I began to understand and make sense of it and be like, okay, like now this makes sense. How can we move forward?

And the same thing with why I would get like stressed and anxious, I felt like for no reason, even though I was having success. And it's because my nervous system was just trained to just be in stressful situations, given how I grew up. And so again, once I understood that and then understood the reason that I still saw myself as this certain type of person, was because of the way I was bullied as a kid for years. I mean, it wasn't like I was picked on once. It was like years and years of bullying. It all...

my therapist was like, this all makes sense as to why you see yourself this way, because your brain in a way has been hijacked to believe like, and to believe other people's opinions, let them dictate how you feel about yourself and your perception of yourself is completely different. And so once I became able, once I became able to unlearn all of that, like things change, because I think that's the main thing that a lot of people struggle with is they feel like they're alone. They feel like they're the only one that is

Doug Bopst (40:23.08)
not in a relationship. They feel like they're the only one that was ever bullied. They feel like they were the only one who's not in the shape they want to be. They feel like they're the only one, right? And, um, and that's why community is so important. That's why being open and honest about your emotions and being vulnerable is important because that creates connection to other people. Because typically, at least when you're in the right group of people and you're sharing something that's vulnerable, that

I mean, as long I mean, if you're spending time with the right types of people, that person is either going to say one of two things they're going to say, you know, thanks for sharing that it's really brave of you. And I can't imagine how hard that must have been. Or they might be like, me too, like, I've struggled with that as well. And so either way, you feel accepted, and you feel like you're you know, that you're not the only person that's going through that. So I went off on kind of a tangent there, but I

Kim Rapach (41:03.031)
Me too.

Kim Rapach (41:11.49)
Yeah.

Well, no, and I think that's actually, I'm glad that that's where you went, because that is what I wanted to ask you. And that, you know, that might even just be a great way to, you know, to begin to wrap up our conversation is if there's somebody who's listening right now, who's questioning, what's the point? What's the purpose? I am alone. There's no point. I've done everything. Nothing works. Or they're feeling like they can't live without, you know, whatever it is they're addicted to, whether it's, you know, drugs and alcohol or

external validation or anger, food, whatever, but somebody who's really questioning, what's the point? What would you say to them?

Doug Bopst (41:54.54)
Well, first I want to make a disclaimer that I'm not a medical professional and that I do think that if you are in a deep, dark place, that you definitely should reach out and get professional medical help or help for your meant from a licensed mental health professional. Um, but in the context of like just general times of darkness, um, what would I tell somebody if they're struggling with, you know, addiction or

if they're struggling to make that change or they're having a hard time in life. I would just say for one thing, I think acceptance is super powerful and that you accept the fact that you have a problem, you accept the fact that this is part of life, you accept the fact that you're not alone in this. And then the other thing is that, what I tell people is that

On the other side of pain is a lot of strength and a lot of encouragement, a lot of wisdom. And so if people can just kind of tap into that and acknowledge, yes, this situation I'm going through sucks and it's painful, because again, two things can be true. You don't wanna just bypass that and have this Pollyanna attitude where everything in life is positive because it's not, and that's a very unhealthy way to live. But if you can say, like what I'm going through right now is very, very challenging, however,

I believe in myself enough and I know that if I'm that I have purpose in life that I have meaning in life and that I know that I meant for something for a I know I meant for this life that I deserve and I'm going to do whatever it takes to get there and you just take it day by day, then eventually it what happens over time again, I don't know that the timeframe could be weeks could be months could be days, whatever it is, what you find is that

you end up coming out of that and then looking back with some level of gratitude. It doesn't mean that event didn't suck because like I'm not like yeah I'm super happy that I got bullied, I'm super happy that I went to jail. Like there is gratitude in some of those things because of who they with the type of person they made me but I don't I don't go back and I'm like I'm so happy

Kim Rapach (43:58.978)
Sure. Right, right, right.

Doug Bopst (44:17.792)
I just don't think that's a, um.

That would be, I just don't think that would be the most ideal, that's not the most ideal way to live.

Kim Rapach (44:34.634)
Yeah, for sure. And I think it's that blending, right? Where like, this is my experience and here's what I did with it and also not personalizing adversity, right? Adversity, it means to be human. And I think sometimes we're running so hard, whether we're chasing success or we go for the drugs, we're running so hard to escape that experience. And it's not personal, it is part of being human. And there are great things that can come of it.

I think when you said community, that's one of the greatest things is knowing. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Doug Bopst (45:08.12)
Well, can I go back? I want to, can I, can I go back and reframe something? Is that all right? Okay. So I guess like, like where I was going to say, um,

Doug Bopst (45:22.648)
So I don't know where you want to cut this, but I would say like, I want to pick back, I want to restart where I said that, like I don't, like I look back in my life and the things that I went through, I'm not like super happy that I went through them. I'm happy because of the person that they made, that it made me. Like I don't look back and say, I'm super thankful that I went through these, but what I'm thankful for is the silver lining that came from it.

And I think if people, if they're in a time of darkness, if they can understand that eventually something like that will come from it, some lessons, some wisdom, some strength. I think it gives people a bit more optimism when they're going through hard times, because now they see that there's some purpose in the pain, and it's not just about all this, it's not just about all this sadness and hardship that you're going through, right? The other thing I really wanna say is that

If you're really struggling with like addiction or something to that effect, just don't be afraid to reach out and ask for help. And I think one of the things that I'll often say is just, again, if I'm hoping that there's people in your life that you trust, maybe it's not a family member, maybe it's a coworker, maybe it's like a friend of a friend, maybe it's a friend, but somebody where you can reach out and just say, hey, listen, I'm really struggling right now. I don't have it all figured out. I wanna get help. Can you please help me?

And that person, I guarantee you, is gonna be like, yes, let's get you some help. Let's go to a meeting. Let's call so-and-so. Let's do this. And now that creates a bridge for somebody to get help because they reach out and ask for somebody to help them. And then again, that person doesn't feel so alone. And so I just wanted to make sure that was clear, that you definitely wanna make sure you're reaching out, asking for help, understanding that this time of darkness is going to change you.

for there's gonna be some scars of course, but there's also gonna be a lot of good that comes out of it. And that you have to remember what you're fighting for, and you have to remember everything that you have gone through and focus on how far you've come and how far you have to go. Because unless a toddler is listening to this, if you're an adult, you've probably been through some stuff and you've gotten through every other situation.

Kim Rapach (47:49.014)
That's right.

Doug Bopst (47:53.976)
You've come out okay, right? Maybe you have some bumps and bruises, but you're still out, you're okay. You're listening to a podcast. I mean, life must not be too, too bad, right? And so I just wanted to make sure that I shared that as well, that there is gonna be some purpose in the pain.

Kim Rapach (48:02.527)
Yeah.

Kim Rapach (48:09.558)
Yeah. Well, one of the painful things that you shared was when you were, you know, under the influence, when you were in your darkest days and you were struggling and you were wondering, would anyone even miss me? And I can't imagine, I think of the work that you're doing now. And I'm just, you know, I'm grateful that you're here. I'm grateful that you chose to fight for yourself. I believe everybody has a story to share and, you know, it doesn't matter how far you are in your career. It doesn't matter how many followers you have.

you know, your story matters, you matter. And I always say like the world needs your gifts, but not at the cost of your soul. And there are people who've walked a few steps ahead of you and to reach out for sure.

Doug Bopst (48:50.648)
Yeah, and if you're still here, there's still purpose. There's still meaning. You just gotta keep going, you know? And I think just keep putting one foot in front of the other, doing whatever it takes just to become a better version of yourself each and every day. And just knowing that eventually, if you keep doing the right things and surrounding yourself with the right people, that eventually things will get better, you know? And that a lot of the...

Kim Rapach (48:53.75)
That's right.

Kim Rapach (49:12.62)
Yeah.

Doug Bopst (49:15.852)
a lot of the people who have had tremendous amounts of success, that success was built out of tremendous pain. Pain in childhood, pain in a relationship, pain in the workplace, pain in their personal lives. And everybody loves a comeback story. And I think that a lot of times in life, you know, I'm holding a pen right now, so I'm just maybe think of it that, we're all writing our story right now. Like I'm in chapter 35 of my story, right?

Kim Rapach (49:22.845)
true.

Doug Bopst (49:45.592)
And I think what happens is we have a bad chapter in life. And instead of saying, okay, that was a bad chapter, I'm just gonna write the next one. We take the pen and we throw it down the sewer drain and say, you know what, like, that's it, I'm done. I'm gonna put it on autopilot and I'm gonna let the world rewrite my story for me. I'm gonna let it, I'm just gonna let go. And that's not to say that you shouldn't have any kind of spiritual belief, because I think that's important. I'm still here.

Kim Rapach (50:12.095)
Oh, where'd you go?

Doug Bopst (50:15.321)
Can you hear me?

Kim Rapach (50:17.874)
I lost you. Okay, now I can. I'm not sure if that's on your end or my.

Doug Bopst (50:18.124)
Hello? Can you hear me? What was the last thing you heard me say?

Kim Rapach (50:24.534)
that you threw the pen down, let the world write the story for you, and then you froze.

Doug Bopst (50:26.656)
Oh.

Yeah, and then you let the world write your story for you and you essentially go on autopilot and say, okay, I'm gonna let the world control how my story ends. I'm gonna let go. And it's not to say that you shouldn't have a spiritual component in your life. I'm not talking about that, but you still need to have some, you still need to have autonomy in what you do. And what I'm encouraging people to do is to pick the pen back up and keep rewriting your story. Like most people,

their favorite books are the books where there's a, it's a feel good story. There's a hero's journey. People overcome something incredibly tremendous, right? It's really hard to like a book. Yeah, it's hard to like a book that's just super boring where every chapter is the same chapter, the same chapter, the same chapter. Can you hear me?

Kim Rapach (51:10.122)
Yeah, because it gives us hope, right?

Kim Rapach (51:19.902)
Yeah, I don't know why we keep cutting out. It looks like I'm okay on my end.

Doug Bopst (51:23.636)
So am I.

Kim Rapach (51:27.742)
I'm not sure.

Doug Bopst (51:29.3)
I do think I do know that Riverside records locally. So my audio and everything in my video should hopefully come through okay. At least it's just been my, I mean, I've used Riverside for probably 300 episodes and that's just been my experience. But I guess, yeah, to close the loop on this, you know, we all love a feel good story and.

Kim Rapach (51:33.727)
Yes.

Kim Rapach (51:37.682)
Okay. Okay, good.

Kim Rapach (51:43.188)
Okay.

Doug Bopst (51:55.36)
in many books that we read, there's some really, really amazing chapters in that book. And there's some chapters like, eh, that was kind of boring. I didn't really like that one. Right. And so my point is pick the pen up, keep right, keep rewriting your story. You can do this, believe in yourself, fight for yourself, and just never forget how far you've come and you will get there just one day at a time.

Kim Rapach (52:16.102)
Yeah, I love that. I have one more question for you. You know, the comeback story, you obviously have one. What does it feel like when you get to use not just your story, but the work that you've done to impact other lives in a positive way? Can you describe what that feels like?

Doug Bopst (52:18.958)
Go ahead.

Doug Bopst (52:35.112)
Um, sorry, I'm just texting my client to tell her I'm going to be a little late, which is fine. You're good. Um, can you ask the question one more time? Sorry about that.

Kim Rapach (52:39.809)
Okay.

Yeah, no, you said everybody loves a comeback story and you obviously have one. And I'm wondering if you would just, if you have a word or two, what does it feel like to go from despair to now getting to impact other people's lives in a positive way? Do you have a word for that?

Doug Bopst (52:59.021)
Astonishing.

Kim Rapach (53:00.554)
Yeah.

Doug Bopst (53:02.304)
I mean, and it's shocking at the same time. I mean, people, I honestly still get kind of, I don't wanna say weirded out, it's not the right word, but I still feel kind of weird when people are like, oh my God, it's Doug Bopes. Like I've had people come up to me and I'm just, if you see me in person, like at the airport or wherever, I'm just a normal person. Like I'm very approachable. Like, you know, I don't think of myself as any better than anybody. I mean, sure, I think maybe I've achieved certain things that other people may not have achieved.

Kim Rapach (53:12.385)
Yeah.

Doug Bopst (53:31.32)
But we all have our own achievements, right? There's still, I'm sure, things that I'd like to achieve that others have and we're all human and that's my point I'm trying to make. And so it still does kind of surprise me when people come up to me and I'm just like, I'm just a dude. I was just really thankful to be alive and I've just been committed to sharing my story to help other people because I felt like that was the main reason that my cellmate helped to help me transform my life in jail and the main reason that I've made it this far.

Kim Rapach (54:01.862)
Yeah, yeah, I think he'd be very proud. Thank you. I'm so glad you're here. You know, you're having such an impact and I just wanna, you know, if you could share with the listeners, how do they find you? I know you have a book, a podcast, you do coaching. If somebody wants to work with you or learn more about your story, how can they find you?

Doug Bopst (54:21.4)
So I would say the easiest way to find me is at my website, which is dougbopes.com. And then I'm, so my website dougbopes.com, then I'm on social media at dougbopes on all the platforms. My podcast is called the Adversity Advantage, which you can find wherever you get your podcasts and it's available also on, thank you. Yeah, and it's also available on YouTube and all my books are on Amazon. So yeah, I appreciate you having me on. I love the conversation.

Kim Rapach (54:39.862)
Which is amazing. It's so good. Yeah.

Doug Bopst (54:51.064)
and hopefully it inspires some people.

Kim Rapach (54:52.818)
Yeah, thank you so much. I'm absolutely confident it will and I look forward to keeping in touch and thank you again for being here.

Doug Bopst (54:58.585)
You got it.